I think the thread has kind of mutated from the OP's intention, and that of my reply, which is to
encourage people to think about it and be responsible in how they choose to camp in bear country. without having to be paranoid about it (i.e. sealing themselves in an aloksack and/or eating in a boy-in-a-bubble setup, bringing along an anti-bear MPLS system, etc.)

The basics are real simple, keep sleeping area away from cooking and eating, and away from food storage, stow your foor properly, and make some noise while you hike. and really, that should be all you need do.

The reason I say it's more for the bear's safety than mine, is the most likely outcome of an encounter in camp if I don't follow the rules, will be a bear gets my food bag. Once the bear
starts taking a hiker's food bag, it becomes conditioned, and means it's gonna get shot. The next most likely long term outcome, is I end up having to hike with a freaking can on my pack when they bring in bear canister requirements because they give up and decide hikers are too busy worrying about what ammunition to carry to john wayne down a charging grizzly in an appropriately manly fashion rather than ensuring they do the right thing to just avoid a problem in the first place.

I live and hike with grizzlies as well as black bears, and frankly, as I mentioned we have a lot more tourists than bears. Unlike California, we still *have* our grizzlies, and I'd really not like to see them dissappear from our mountains. I'd certainly not like to see *any* bear get shot due to my hiking activity.

And please don't call me anti-gun, or a tree hugger more worried about the bear than myself. I've shot my way into A class IPSC competitions and have placed as high as 3rd in the province here. I've probably run more high powered handgun rounds downrange than I bet most of the people on this board have, and there's a lot of places here where if I thought a handgun was appropriate, I'd carry it, legal or not (it is not legal to do so in canada, so of course I haven't) I know what it takes with a firearm, and I know what it takes with bear spray. I carry spray - It's lighter, and on the whole when you consider the accuracy requirements for it to be effective at all, it's a heck of a lot more effective.

Notwithstanding that, the chances of you ever haviing to *use* the spray are very low. I never have. ESPECIALLY if you are doing the right thing, like the original topic, when in the boonies. (as Earthling's .sig says - Pepper spray ain't brains in a can) Bear safety is not all about preparing for the ultimate man versus beast showdown. It is about a little ounce of prevention to keep everyone (including the bear!) safe in the usual encounter scenarios. I have had MANY bear
encounters. never anything problematic.

Now yes, very occasionaly predatory bear attacks occur. They are extremely rare. Yes, perhaps on the off chance I was every targeted by one I might wish I had my M-14 with a 20 round stick of 220grain nosler partitions instead of my bear spray. In complete honesty, the chances of that every happening rank somewhere below me being propositioned to share a hot evening of naked fun in a 3 man tent with two twenty something hiker chicks while on the trail. So, frankly, before
I even think about the weight of a gun, at least I'd have a comb for my back hair in my pack (I don't) I'd also just stop going hiking at all because there would be such a giant chance of me
dying:

1) on the road to work thinking about hiking
2) on the road to the trail
3) From eating a gas station bathroom egg salad sandwitch at a stop on the way to the trail.
...
5000) from me breaking a leg on the trail and dying of exposure
....
5,000,000) from a rock pinning my arm in a crack and my knife being too dull for me to cut my arm off and walk out because I left my knife at home and borrowed one from Jim Shaw.
....
18,789.293,090) From the above mentioned proposition happening on the trail and my having a spontaneous heart attack from the shock of it.
18,789.293,091) from my wife finding out about the hiker chix above and the resultant amateur surgery to my nether regions with a butter knife becoming septic, etc. etc..
...
18,789,293,091 + N) Oh gosh I might get eaten by a grizzly that is determined to eat me in spite of proper bear safety and my bear spray won't chase him off. Better pack my 11.5 pounds of gun....

This does not mean you don't take sensible precautions to prevent the otherwise likely encounters (food related) or less likely encounters (surprising a mom with cubs, or a bear
on a kill). But focusing on a gun, or freaking out over the chance of the most unlikely type of
encounter happening (a predatory type attack) is simply not productive.

Sorry, I'm in a ranting mood this morning. Had to cancel a planned trip ;(


Edited by phat (07/10/08 08:46 AM)
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