thanks for you guys opinions. feal free to keep them comming im not planning to get out untill it gets cooler, and my work load slows . but thank you anyways i apreiciate the help. by the way i use aluminum cheapies and some wooden homemade ones . i beleave at one time i had a galvanized gutter nail i used <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

ps: sorry i didnt mean too upset anyone