Quote:
just read the whole post heres my 2 bits worth it makes me uncomfortable that there are lists of items to bring.

I concur. I specially dislike the ubiquitous "Ten Essentials" lists. Or as I call them: The "Non Essentials" lists.

Quote:
there isn't many people that i would go up in the hills with that just talk about what they read in a book.

Did you ever see the Gary Larson comic captioned .... "On the Internet no one knows you're a dog."

We all know that experience is the best teacher. Unfortunately it's the most experienced who are most likely to die out there. IOW: Newbies seldom tackle Denali. And when they do they are so over-equipped they don't get far and end up going home disgusted. Right, MNS?

[/quote]now talking about cold our valley bottoms run about 1300-2000 ft we have had snow at this hieght in every month of the year our mountains run up to 8000 ft in this area and they do freeze regular if you get hurt lost and do not have extra gear you will not survive,[/quote]
Sorry but you missed the points:

1) The subjects of this thread and a large majority of rescue subjects did/do have the proper gear. It's true i'm guessing based on the article describing them as being very experienced.
2) Even you cannot help but spread unreasonable fear by telling folks they'll die if they are poorly prepared. It jist taint nesarily so!

Quote:
it does throw out the real light weight goals

Naaah, not necessarily. LTW "goals" are bogus. Because LTW is mostly subjective. Extremists like Dr. ArrJay need not apply. ;-)

Quote:
if you let coldness creep in and get ahold then you may not be able to save yourself if you catch it in time and you have the gear ----- then you stand a chance

There you go again .... spreading FUD. It would do as well if one said: Improvise, adapt overcome .... because if you don't have it you don't need it. And both POVs would be wrong for most hikers.

Look at it this way:

A large portion of outdoors lovers (for want of a better term) never get far from the campground. Probably because the last time they hiked more than a few miles they were bushed and did not have a good time.

Another large percentage never get farther than five miles, or so, from the trailhead. Probably because they are so burdened w/excess gear. And they don't go out very often because it's a pain (literally) carrying so much excess weight.

Leaving a few, very few, who venture forth. Of those, most are accompanied by at least one experienced hiker. Because newbies think they'll freaking die if they head off by themselves. Hmmm, I wonder how they got that idea. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Which leaves a small number of experienced hikers and a tiny percentage of extremists (the latter is not an insulting comment, unless we're talking about Dr. ArrJay, et al).

It's the last two groups we should be addressing w/dire warnings. Not "beginners." But as we all know they are the ones least likely to take heed.

Peace,

Richard.