Phat,

AHA! Now we get down to personal weight "shaving" preferences.

i.e. no cup, no groundcloth, "going commando", etc.

And to each his or her own. So we'll never get the broad beyond definitions of weight categories such as "Skin Out Weight" or "Non Consumable Pack Weight".

But when someone says, "THIS is my fantastically low pack weight." and does not carry rain gear or a mattress or a first aid kit, etc. etc., then they are only fooling themselves when it gets really wet or cold or they are hurt.

Sure, experience counts for the ability to leave a FEW items at home on a FEW trips. But like the "Lighten UP" book shows, in the cartoons of the various types of light weight backpackers, the guy with a tiny 5 lb. pack is a bit looney looking...and acting

There is light and there is dangerously light by omission of "safety" items.

And like the title of this thread, being "HONEST", both with yourself and with others, about just how you achieved that light(er) pack weight is paramount for a valid discussion. Me? I 'fess up that I achieved my light pack weight mainly by spending on such expensive items as $100. SteriPens, $350. WM down bags, etc.

Eric