Gershon, please give up. Conceed. Do you remember back in the days that we were in the military? I've been reminded in posts that "tying knots and swimming in cold water" wouldn't save us...LOL.

What was the first thing we were taught. 1st day, clas 101, don't PANIC we will find you. Keep your Cool, don't panic and over and over again.

And then we went into more advanced classes. Many dropped out.
But still we learned. Not by a line or two, in a manual, but more heavily trained. No one was sending us out to die, but it sure seemed like it.

Then we where hit with this type of scenario....Sleep deprevation, (intended_, 20K marches, (again intended) and then forced to find our way out of a mess, with a compass and a grid map, when our mental faculties were at the least, barely functional.

Some would call this "hubris", some would remind us that if we weren't informed of the Jung(ian) form of psychology, or if whe didn't transform ourselves into a state of "Zen", or found ourselves not completely in "one with the universe", that we were bound by our own hubris, and over confidence, that we were destined to die.

Guess what? I'm still alive, and so are you. So some may come full circle over and over and over...am I being redundant?, again, to be in tune with the universe, or not having read the pseudo intellectual psychology of "how to think when in trouble), how can we explain the existance of ourselves, to be still alive today? I don't know, maybe you can answer that.

As humans, we are all subject to our limitations. Mine is cold weather, But I'll take that training, where I was awake for 72 hours, and told to find my way "home" or drop out, as a much more survivable situation, than pondering my place in the universe, any day.

I think, although we were in differnt forces, in different day's, repition, repetition, repetiton, got us to our appointed position, more than all of the "zen" in the world. We trained to the point that we didn't need to stop for hours to ponder the universe, but act upon our training, correct our error's and go on. I know that many dropped or failed from our instruction, not everyone is cut out for it, some have other skills, but we survived, and did well in the process.

I know that it's not common in "backpacking", but I seriously doubt that many backpackers, including SAR, have had to make the serious decisicon to have the jump master pull 30 feet of our static cord, so we could jump into an area, under the 1500 foot safety margin, just to pull a 150 lb. manequine out of a bind (to replicate a save). I call it repetitive, because it causes one to not have to be frightened by the envioronment, but to be confident that our endlessly to the point of ad nausem training, as not to feel that it was "over confident" or "hubris". Just plain simple replication of what we were taught and capable of doing.

You've made points here, that I think are lost on others. Remebmer, we tie knots and swim in cold water....LOL....

I look foward to your books. I'm always open to new and improved methods. Just think if we were still using the same methods as our forefathers, who migrated throgh the wilderness, with a piece of "junk" compass, if they had one, and their knowledge. And think about the ramifications, if we ever failed to improve on their methods, where would we be now?

I'm willing to learn anything new, that would help, or be educational. It would be certainly more helpful than a "zen like" focus on the umiverse. Let me repeate for those who seem to lose focus. WE DID LEARN NOT TO PANIC, AND NOT LOSE our cool. That was the first day. Then you learn not to dwell on that for life, but to remember it. What happens after that is up to the individual's ability, and competence. Knowing what you're doing is NOT HUBRIS, and not over confidence. It IS, what determines who lives and who dies, not somebody's book. Actually I believe that's God's territory, but that's a differnt story that belongs somewher else. Geshon, feel free, if you need too, to tell me to read another book on the "psychology of saving myself, if i'm in trouble." Just kidding, waiting for delivery of yours. No matter what this thread evolves to, keep the info coming. I, at least, for one,
appreciate it.

J.