Tarp shelters are great. But to me, it's a complete no-brainer: No door = no good, in my opinion. There are many tarp shelter designs that do provide a door, at little or no weight penalty. There are many such shelters, however, that are designed with an open front with no option for closing it down.

Among the best-known that don't offer a door would be the "Squall Classic" or Henry Shirer "Squall." [EDIT: statement is apparently incorrect. My current belief is that Shirer shelters previously had no doors but currently have doors.. Sorry for mistake.] Mountain Hardwear briefly made a nearly identical design it called "Batwing" [No door.] which I continue to own, though only rarely employ.

Previously, I used it for quite a few nights, including nearly a week in which there were a series of heavy summer thunderstorms, or "squalls," & during which I became objectionably damp.

My version was designed for two people, but I was alone and able to schrunch myself into middle of this tent. Yet there was plenty of wet that sprayed itself on to me and my gear. It was quite unsatisfactory after a day or two, and and unnecessary, had I used a more suitably designed shelter. A door on Batwing would have added only a few ounces, especially if made of latest silicon-treated nylon.

I have three other tarp tents that have integral doors-- two of them have zippers and one, the SilShelter, has a door that is indescribably primative, but a door at least, nonetheless. I've used all three in four seasons. Wouldn't think for a second of using Batwing in winter. And it's heavier than all the others (Mt. Hardwear goes in big for durability.)

Years back, I relied on a rectangular tarp for many, many nights over a period of years.. Eventually, I obtained the knack of setting it up in a pyramidal configuration in which it could be completely closed to the elements, though resulting shelter was rather small, relative to size of tarp, unless I used supplemental "door" in the form of a poncho (even more complex.)

With this method, I used the simple tarp on a fair number of nights in winter and in some fairly significant snow storms.

It's a slightly esoteric skill which I've now mostly lost. But it can be done efficiently, or at least effectively. The "Squall" and many similar designs cannot be used in this manner.

John,

You're talking to a tent and TarpTent guy here (Contrail) so I totally agree. When I used to tarp I'd always rig it ro have a "door" flap that I could quickly secure in the event of a sudden afternoon Pennsylvania thunderstorm.

Eric

P. S. That tarp I used was a big 10' X 12" tarp. That size allowes for a "door". A space blanket was my floor.

JD - I gotta disagree with your singling out the Squall design.
Doesn't your Squall have a front flap that reaches nearly to the ground that closes off the front? I know the very early Squalls had a shorter beak for front coverage, but the later model Squall (like I have) and Squall2 have extend beaks that extend well in front of the mesh door, providing a significant amount of protection. Granted, I have not had mine out in a hurricane, but I have some good decent rain with wind, and I have had no problem with it. Close up the extended beak, and I am fully protected.

On some level I agree that there is a significant disadvantage to a flat tarp that does not provide any end protection, but yet there are lots of people that have figured out how to make it work, I figured it always had much more to do with my lack of skill, personal preference to fiddle factor, and lack of bug protection that kept me away from these shelters.

I agree about doors. Back in my tarp days, I solved the door problem by using a weather-resistant (or waterproof-breathable) bivy sack. This let me use a smaller tarp, so the extra weight was minimized. It worked OK; the main advantage, back then, was that the tarp and bivy still weighed less than most available tents.

I liked the Silshelter - probably my favorite tarp - but still carried a bivy sack with a lot of mesh (ID Salathe.) I didn't really want to carry a groundcloth, and wanted some bug protection; the Salathe gave me the option of sleeping without a roof. Never was too impressed with the Silbug liner (floor and netting) that supposedly works with the Silshelter. I could never quite figure out the combined pitch, and found that the liner was awkward to get into and out of. Besides, the weight of the two pieces was a little more than a TT Rainbow, and not much less than a BA Seedhouse SL1. Both were more functional alternatives.

When lightweight, solo tents appeared, the weight advantage of a tarp-plus-something pretty much disappeared. I tried the TT Rainbow and BA Seedhouse SL1 before settling on the MSR Hubba. All three are good solo tents; the Hubba just seemed to click better with my own personal quirks.

John, I might have missed your point. I’m not sure what you mean by open front in terms of Shire tarptents. I have had incredible success with these tarptents. In the Midwest, I am ‘lucky’ to be backpacking amidst thunderings, lightnings, and horizontal rain (high wind).

I have stayed surprisingly dry in the Cloudburst, Rainshadow, and GG Classic Squall. I have just acquired the Virga, and no rain came through that doorway. I got a little spray through the side mesh near the back (after a 2” dump of rain). I have yet to fix the mesh (it sticks out beyond the tent).

I will admit, I try to pick a camp spot that slightly impedes high winds and rain, and has good drainage. But I would do this with any tent.

It sounds like your mountain hardwear batwing does not perform as well as today’s taprtents.

-Barry

CORRECTION: The current Squall, IN FACT, appears to have some sort of door, so I guess (OOPS!) that example is at least out of date . But it appears that certain earlier Squall versions may have not had a door. (??)

MSR Wings and Golite Lair would be more accurate and current examples. But it may be that my entire point is going out of date. Looking around, I see, or at least imagine I see, fewer doorless tarp shelters on the market now than some years ago when I acquired the Batwing (in which, by the way, I've spent many pleasant and mostly rainless summer nights).

here is a fantastic site for using simple tarps with a couple of options for complete coverage:

http://www.equipped.com/tarp-shelters.htm

There were several pyramidal configurations that I used with simple rectangular tarp that afforded a door of sorts. The simplest entailed tucking a sizable corner of tarp underneath shelter.

This in effect lopped off a triangluar piece of the tarp, constricted size of shelter and subjected it to abrasion. But it was pretty effective somehow. I can no longer quite visualize method, or how or why it worked, but for a long while, I had it nailed pretty well, even though it was a somewhat fussy procedure. I think the 9x10 tarp used this way provided a largish one-person-type space of maybe 25 -30 square feet.

The resulting "door" functioned something like SilShelter's door, in that it relied on stakes (or slinged rocks or small logs -- much easier to move and adjust for opening & closing..)

I like tarps. I use tarps. I agree with you - it is hard to have a water proof setup. Winds shift, things happen, mountain weather can be brutal. But I dislike tents enough that I still can't take one with me. Luckily I live where winters are mild in comparison.

It's not that hard. See link above. In particular "low tetra" set and several others on list.

OMG! Oh Heck!!!! This is partly why his instructions are somewhat hard to follow.

Quote from site:
Trigonometry is a branch of Mathematics that deals with Triangles.� At the heart of Trigonometry, are angles.



We measure Angles in degrees (�).� Each degree subdivides into 60 minutes (') or 1/60th of a degree, and each minute subdivides again into 60 seconds (") or 1/60th of a minute.� To use the Degree mark (�) on most computer keyboards, hold down the �Alt' key and press 0176 on the numeric keypad (Alt + 0176).



There are 360� in a Circle, and 180� in a Straight Line.� A Right Angle is 90� (exactly), and a small square is its symbol, unlike the arcs used for other angles.� An Acute (sharp) Angle is between 0� and 90�.� An Obtuse (blunt) Angle is between 90� and 180�.� A Reflex (bent back) Angle is between 180� and 360�.�



The sum of the internal angles in a Triangle is 180� (half that of a Circle).� An Equilateral Triangle has ALL sides equal in length, and ALL angles equal to 60�.� An Isosceles Triangle has TWO sides equal in length, with TWO angles equal to each other.� A Scalene Triangle has NO sides or angles equal to any other.



A Right-Angled Triangle has a Right Angle (90�) inside it.� The Hypotenuse is a special name used for the side of a triangle opposite a Right Angle (note that an �opposite' side does NOT touch the angle in question).� The Hypotenuse is ALWAYS the longest side in a triangle.

and everyone has one, just like common body parts.

But some are better than others, opinions that is.

We live in a country where you can have your doors. And I can have my tarp.

Simple tarps are amazingly flexible and can be pitched in an astonishing number of configurations, including of course with a "door" or without, and with various degrees of ingenuity and fussing.

I'm almost starting here to talk myself into going back to one in preference to my tarp shelters, or floorless tents, or whatever they're properly called and which have little or no flexibilty.

I like my syl nylon tarp, except for the lack of bug protection. I never seemed to need a door, but I camp in the summertime. Most times I try and pitch it kind of like a pyramid laying on its side with the point toward the prevailing wind. Of course, the wind can sometimes change. The thing I really like is the versatility of the thing. I keep experimenting with endless configurations. My biggest problem with some setups seems to be condensation. I can just imagine how much moisture I would get if I had a door. In the warm summer a breeze can be a good thing. Keeps the bugs away too.

Howie

John David

I'm no longer sure just what a tarp tent is <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> and just how it is different from a tent? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Um a piece of nylon with a floor over eastman poles is a tent, and a piece of sil-nylon [larger] over trecking poles or eastman poles is a tarp tent. Generally tents have one or two doors, so do tarps unless they have no doors. Tarps flap a lot more in the wind and have thin thread tie-outs. My 16 ounce sil-tent has a floor and a bug screen in the bottom and a storm flap in the front. It was made from a tarp I bought on ebay. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> but its really more of a tube tent. I had an inflateable tent once, or was it a tarp since it had no poles? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

What can I say, except that I like using a tarp, and the lack of a "door" doesn't bother me in the least.

Definitions are problematic. I'm calling a "tarp shelter" what some might call a floorless tent, which actually may be a more accurate term.

I'm calling a tarp a simple flat piece of material that is generally a textile but can also be plastic, etc.

I'm calling a "door" any flap or covering, such that when shut, the shelter becomes enclosed on all sides.

Doors on a tent (or tarp shelter) if any, obviously depend on its design. Not so on a tarp. For one example, among several methods, of how to set up a simple 10x10-foot tarp, such that it has a "door," and is fully enclosed, see Low Tetra set here:

http://www.equipped.com/tarp-shelters.htm

Hmmm, John David, are most of your camps in wide open exposed places, or do you have the option of using the terrain for shelter. Here in Colorado, I am amazed at the sheltered areas that I can find during wind and rain. Only sometimes do I hike above treeline, but I still usually drop down lower for a good sheltered spot. Your profile is blank.

There are many who will sacrifice a 4 lb tent just to wander around and find that perfect spot.