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#206296 - 05/06/22 10:00 AM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: Arizona]
DustinV Offline
member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 190
Loc: Lakewood, CO
Yeah, I'm pretty much giving up on alcohol stoves, for the time being, since it sounds like they will be banned in CO for the foreseeable future. It's sad because I love my Trangia and other stoves. I even came across some steel soda-style cans that I was planning on building into burners...

Even so, it's nice to have a viable backup stove type for emergencies, and at no real weight penalty.

The case seems like a really good idea. Does it seal up fairly tight so that soot doesn't leak out?

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#206297 - 05/06/22 07:09 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: DustinV]
Arizona Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 301
Loc: The Southwestern Deserts
The case clasps up tight but not completely sure if it will not sift some fine particles. I’ve done two burns boiling water but each time here at home scrubbed everything with vinegar and Borax. That case easily fits into a quart freezer bag. That will protect your pack. The Nano really does burn twigs well but needs constant attention as those twigs need to be pushed in kind of often. Same with all smaller twig stoves. It is an excellent emergency backup.

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#206299 - 05/10/22 05:22 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: DustinV]
Arizona Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 301
Loc: The Southwestern Deserts
The new Trangia gas burner performed today making a two person scone. The Pathfinder skillet I’ve had for a few years and lid worked well. The X-case definitely makes everything much more stable. The burner snaps into place perfectly.
The top of the burner is about half an inch from the bottom of the pot. The looping gas tube is close to .2” from the pot. The burner head is wide and really delivers heat even when turned down as far as possible.

I thought the scone might be burning some and I could have taken it off the flame in 10 minutes instead of 15. It was a little dry but didn’t burn. The stove is very near silent on super low, more than other ps I’ve used burning canister fuel. On medium it’s the afterburners of a fighter jet like most.

We’ll do this again in the wilderness later this week at a very strange place we discovered last week, a circle of paved stones that are flat and have four sitting stones at the cardinal magnetic directions. It’s in the middle of nowhere without any faint path. Looks to be built long ago.

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#206301 - 05/11/22 12:49 AM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: Arizona]
DustinV Offline
member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 190
Loc: Lakewood, CO
How was the modulation on the stove? And did the burner clip in and make the whole structure more stable? Is that skillet aluminum?

10-15 minutes to make scones is about the same amount of time as boiling water and then waiting for a salty freeze-dried meal to rehydrate. I should probably try something like this with my old Trangia cookset.

I happened to have an opportunity today to gather my remote-canister stove, the Hexagon and a very thin aluminum water bottle. I'll work out how to post a pic sometime, but for now I can say that it all worked, but not well enough to replace my other kits. The FireMaple Blade barely fit inside the Hexagon with the hose trailing out the little door. The bottle was maybe 1/2" inset into the cone. I tried a burn test with about 500ml, but shut off the stopwatch at about 5 minutes. It isn't speedy, so I'll have to see if it's efficient.

The boil in a bottle experiment may end up being a failure, but it has been fun. At least I've got more ideas.

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#206303 - 05/11/22 03:01 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: DustinV]
Arizona Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 301
Loc: The Southwestern Deserts
I’ve found the easiest method to post a picture here is to get a free Flickr account, upload there and copy the embedding code.
The modulation is pretty good. I could get it low enough to bake in the lidded skillet. The burner head is wider than any other canister stove. That kind of puts out more heat. It does go from low to high quickly so one has to barely turn the valve to make a difference but it is doable. We’ll see how it does outside of a sheltered backyard soon.
The burner clips in solidly but I’m not sure if it adds stability. The skillet is about 8” and is stainless steel with a thin disk of steel on the bottom to spread the heat evenly and it does. The lid makes it amazingly versatile outdoors for things like pizza or chicken. It’s very similar to the MSR Alpine skillet but that one doesn’t have a lid choice.
All of this makes a wonderful kitchen but comes with enough weight to give some pause for some trips but light vs performance cookware is walking a tightrope. With this and the Snow Peak 1400 pot/bowl setup we can cook just about anything. For car camping it’s a backcountry bistro. Sometimes it’s fun on a dayhike.

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#206308 - 05/12/22 06:22 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: DustinV]
Arizona Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 301
Loc: The Southwestern Deserts
The Trangia gas burner in the Firebox Nano showed perfectly good performance on a knoll in a canyon of the mountains. The breeze was very light and didn’t have to use the flame guard or extra windscreen. The modulation is fine, valve not quite enough resistance when adjusting. But it does stay put and goes very low.
The scones were so good. It’s a solid setup that will hold just about any size pot. We’ll try the double boiler method next week with the Snow Peak 1400 with nesting bowl. We have baked a bunch of cakes, lots of lattes and countless chocolate Pot de Crème in that pot setup.


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#206310 - 05/13/22 10:01 AM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: Arizona]
DustinV Offline
member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 190
Loc: Lakewood, CO
It may be advisable to not leave your scones unattended, especially if a bald guy wanders into your camp asking, "Can I check out the modulation on your stove..?" That looks ...tempting.

I think you've convinced me to finally move away from just boiling water and toward actual cooking. Or at least camping next to someone who does cook...

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#206311 - 05/13/22 03:44 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: DustinV]
DustinV Offline
member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 190
Loc: Lakewood, CO
This is what my remote canister stove looked like inside the Hexagon. The stove barely fits with the legs open and the bottle is inset maybe half an inch.

[img:right]https://share.icloud.com/photos/0bcEAVDLjHDdca7_fJ-6y8oiA[/img]


Edited by DustinV (05/13/22 03:52 PM)

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#206312 - 05/14/22 04:29 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: DustinV]
Arizona Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 301
Loc: The Southwestern Deserts
You are welcome in our camp, scones will be hot off the pan.

That is a nice setup. I’ve always liked those hexagon stoves. What is the water bottle sitting on, the gas stove supports or a mesh grate on top of that? That’s probably as good as my Nano could do.

Is that a faint mountain ridge in the background? I’m a third of a mile from National Forest and a half mile in the designated wilderness trails start going up vertically into the mountains, canyons everywhere.

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#206313 - 05/15/22 01:08 AM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: Arizona]
DustinV Offline
member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 190
Loc: Lakewood, CO
The Hexagon is fun. It's not the most efficient wood burner, but it's versatile. I can use it as the windscreen/pot support for alcohol and now this canister stove.

The bottle is sitting on the canister stove arms, folded in. When using alcohol stoves, I can lay stakes in the notches and inset the bottle. Ironically, I did this test on top of a Solo stove. [img]https://share.icloud.com/photos/0094M_1rITxSc1Gd5WqMOUaEA[/img]


That's a small state park across the street. It's a nice place for a quick bike, run, boat... They even have a little beach over there.


Edited by DustinV (05/15/22 01:10 AM)

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#206317 - 05/16/22 05:01 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: DustinV]
Arizona Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 301
Loc: The Southwestern Deserts
You definitely have some good cooking gear and a versatile setup.

Having a State Park so close is nice! Getting in a hiking fix is super important. grin I gotta have it several times a week. Came across the second lion/deer kill site in four days. I love having monsters in surreal hiking terrain.

I tried some lighter equipment for another blueberry chocolate chip walnut scone so the experiments continue.

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#206324 - 05/17/22 01:31 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: Arizona]
DustinV Offline
member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 190
Loc: Lakewood, CO
Having a place close by to get a dose of wilderness is very nice, especially if you don't have to drive. It's like the trail starts at your door, that way. I don't get out there as much as I'd like, but since I've resurrected a couple of bikes it's been more frequent. Mostly, the wilderness comes to me, though. A couple of weeks ago, a bobcat trotted past the spot where I did my boil test, in fact.

I've struggled with what cooking setup to bring because a wider pot heats more efficiently and is easier to cook with, but a narrower one is easier to pack and fits the canister and stove more easily. I thought maybe I could avoid the whole thing by using a bottle and end up with a lighter overall setup. It seems like the things I need to do to mitigate the inefficiency of heating a narrow bottle are adding up to more weight and bulk.

I think I'll go back to my compromise solution: a 4.5" wide 500ml pot I got with a Soto Amicus and a plastic lid scavenged from a different set. It fits a small canister, spork, lighter, etc. but the stove has to go into the bear can. I should be able to cook a little in this one because it's anodized aluminum, so sorta non-stick.

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#206417 - 06/08/22 03:29 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: DustinV]
Arizona Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 301
Loc: The Southwestern Deserts
We got in a good steep canyon climb and a few hours later descended to an old cut off table for some revivifiing tea. The table was built by the WPA in the mid 1930s and is no longer used, plants and weeds growing up around it everywhere. It is nice and level so before we started I stuck my 1.2 liter ti bottle up there and it felt pretty stable.



Still too risky for me so the 600 ml cup that nests with the bottle did the work. I heated up girlfriend’s water first and then mine right after. This does make a compact kit for the pack.



Then we ambled back along the shady creek trail. We have also been working more on the perfect scone. Lol I acquired a Banks Fry-Bake pan & lid and put the old Outback oven to work with it and the Firebox setup. We are under Stage 2 fire ban here so no alcohol or wood, but LPG (canister fuel) is okay.

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#206419 - 06/09/22 09:28 AM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: Arizona]
DustinV Offline
member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 190
Loc: Lakewood, CO
If that bottle didn't seem stable on concrete I'm sure it wouldn't feel stable on a dirt patch or uneven rock. I"m redirecting my hunt for cookware back to wide pots.

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#206420 - 06/09/22 05:43 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: DustinV]
Arizona Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 301
Loc: The Southwestern Deserts
Wise course of action. Wider pots are much more efficient with water boiling. Tall bottles are way too top heavy and boiling water is very dangerous. In my 20s a petite and feisty little redhead pulled up to a red light next to me, both of us on bicycles. She was in her 20s as well.
We got to know each other. She had long hair which covered burn scars on the side of her head and down her neck. It happened in the kitchen when she was a little girl her father and boiling water involved and burned stays burned forever. Best to protect the dermal layer as much as possible lol.

What size pot are you looking at?

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#206421 - 06/10/22 10:12 AM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: Arizona]
DustinV Offline
member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 190
Loc: Lakewood, CO
I have a number of pots to choose from because I've been experimenting with this stuff for a long time. The size will be limited by which bear canister I take, since I like to store my cook kit in the can.

I'm mostly doing overnights nowadays, so I grabbed a Contender bear can. That can fit the venerable SP Trek 700, which is 4" diameter. Or maybe the GSI Minimalist. A compromise for cooking and drinking.

For longer trips, I can fit about anything into the BV450. The 5" diameter Soto set that came with my Amicus stove have pretty decent anodizing. I can get away with just the 500ml with a lid from a different set. That seems to be the tipping point where cooking and drinking are about equal.
If I decide to bring real food, I would opt for the Vargo Sierra 750, essentially a mini wok. It goes from 4" to 6". Better for cooking than drinking.

I am also bikepacking-curious, which seriously limits the size. For that, the Soto Thermostack will fit in the frame bag. It's only about 3.5" diameter, so only good for boiling.

The bottle experiment was an effort to combine drinking and cooking vessels, but it seems like the amount of extra gear I'd have to bring to mitigate the diameter disadvantage would negate any weight or bulk savings. It's not worth the hassle, nor the added risk.

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#206603 - 08/24/22 04:29 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: DustinV]
Pasc Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/16/22
Posts: 3
For safety reasons, better to use steel bottles. It's not clear yet if titanium has some health effect on the organism.

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#206604 - 08/25/22 09:19 AM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: Pasc]
BZH Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 1189
Loc: Madison, AL
uhh... what? Artificial joints use titanium because it is so inert in the body. I've never seen anything to indicate adverse health effects from boiling in a Ti bottle. Do you have a reference for that statement?

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#206605 - 08/25/22 11:36 AM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: BZH]
DustinV Offline
member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 190
Loc: Lakewood, CO
Maybe Pasc was thinking of aluminum. I know there's been a lot of discussion about that.
All I've ever heard about titanium is that it's inert. And expensive.


Edited by DustinV (08/25/22 01:08 PM)

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#206606 - 08/25/22 01:56 PM Re: Boil in a bottle? [Re: Pasc]
Arizona Offline
member

Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 301
Loc: The Southwestern Deserts
To my knowledge titanium is far, far, far less reactive than stainless steel or aluminum but I would be willing to read any study you can link.

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