Gizmodo has an article on new tent designs titled "Why Your Next Tent Might Be A Cube".

I find this pretty interesting because the one I made is pretty much a cube, and it's based on the old "Bakers' Tent" design. It seems this design might be making a comeback, and I think that's great.

This a new MSR design they talked about. I was thinking about making my next tent similar to this, but I keep talking myself out of it because having the door on the long side is really nice, but I still like this:

Having the door flap attach at the bottom like that is a pet design peeve of mine. I don't like it. Never have.

Yeah, I don't like that either. I didn't notice it until you pointed it out though.

Mine rolls up, or just flaps back over the top, but that looks like it'd get sloppy fast in wet weather, or just grunged up when it's dry.

Well, that's interesting.

+1 on the door flap issue. And I don't care for the door location either. Give me a side door in a tent if I have a choice.

That's exactly the issue that put me off about the BA Copper Spur UL 1, also.

I had one tent that the flap is on the bottom and it annoyed me so much I took it back after one use. It is no fun having to freeze or let all the bugs in the tent just trying to put your boots on when venting the bottom and sticking your feet out works so much better.

I can tolerate the end-entry (I use the side/front entries on my Optic 3.5 and the Big Agnes Slater 3 about evenly) and I can't see where this particular design would work well with a side-entry. IF I only had one choice I'd prefer side.

Personally I agree with you that I don't like having the door attach on the bottom, but in this case there were reasons for it. With the new MSR Fly Light Tent's door, one reason why they did it this way was to allow for better air flow when it's raining. Another reason I was told is that the door can be much larger thus allowing easier access by more than one person. Doing it any other way would mean either a round door (small door), a D-style door (doesn't offer as good of ventilation options), and perhaps a larger door that does attach to the side rather than the ground (too much zipper to wear out). This, in the designer's minds, was the best solution for the design of the tent.

There were a couple of things I love about this tent. One, how easy it is to set up. By staking down the four corners, the last few things to do are put up the trekking poles and the small aluminum pole in the back. In my opinion, having put it up several times, it is much easier even when compared to a clipped tents. As far as staking it down, MSR is using the same aluminum oval 'grommets' they use in the Hubba NX series of tents. This means you can also tension the tent making it more taut, something often difficult with these types of shelters.

The other thing I love about the Fly Light, is how roomy it is! It's really a 2+ man tent. Being a solo backpacker, I'm hoping that they make a smaller version. However, having this much interior room means a very comfortable sleeping arrangement for 1lb 9oz.

I've also been impressed with the quality of construction and materials. It's really nice! It's ultralite, obviously, and uses 10D material with 10D mesh (lightest available) and a 20D floor, 1500mm coated floor (1000mm on the tent, 100% seam sealed). The coating is the same polyurethane we use in our Thermarest mattresses. It's called the Durashield coating. The benefit is incredibly durable, much more than standard polyurethane. What we've been told is it's near impossible to delaminate (storing it while wet and over exposure to UV rays will deteriorate the materials and coatings). Packing it up by stuffing it into a compressions sack or folding it in the same place will not effect the coating. We use this coating in all of MSR tents and is the best PU in the industry. I can't wait to get it out with it this spring!

I have to say that having grown up in the 50's, Baker tents were common, like with the Boy Scouts. They were cotton canvas and some of the better ones were made from a tight weave, light canvas. It was common to have a 10+ pound tent for 2 people, imagine that today!

A Baker tent was designed to be used close to a campfire, they were pretty comfortable to sleep in. There is no advantage to a nylon or Dacron version on the Baker design, you can't possibly be close enough to a fire to take real advantage of the shape of the tent.

So, while cool looking this new tent is impractical if you ask me.

I see this reference often: "1500mm coating" etc. etc. Well, thats' 1.5 meters and 1 meter on the tent. What exactly are they referring to? 1.5 and 1 meter of what? The coatings? If so, that's one heck of a weird way to measure something.

It's true these particular tents weren't meant to be used with a campfire, but there are advantages to these variations on a Baker's Tent which I've come to really appreciate, and the practical functionality is exactly what I'm impressed with.

• They're roomy and easy to get in and out of, and those new materials make them very light.
  
  
• The design provides for a lot of variation in how you set them up. You can use tent poles, trekking poles, sticks, or just run guy lines to trees.
  
  
• It's pretty nice to sit just inside the tent, on the floor, under the awning with the door wide open and make coffee and breakfast, or dinner, and have the big view of the outdoors while you enjoy it.
  
  
• They are a lot more weather worthy than one might expect.
  

Personally, I think that tent designs trended away from the simple aesthetics of the "cube" due to a few main factors: Cheap fiberglass poles made for fast and easy set up of freestanding dome style tents, and fashion. But dome style tents sacrifice comfort. This is often overlooked because they've been in use for so long now that they are the norm.

The MSR Fast Stash is another design I like a lot.



Now, the ease and comfort these "cube" designs provide is not apparent in photos, or even in written descriptions, but it's there. I found that out only by using one. And to be fair, MSR and others can't make a campfire tent because someone will catch it on fire and blame them. But I can make one because I can only blame myself if I catch it on fire, so I did (make one, not catch it fire ).



Here, in the Ozarks, the tent above, while I'll admit is pretty hillbilly in design, actually works astoundingly well in practice. It proves the "Supershelter" concept beyond any doubt, and I've found it to be more comfortable than any tent I've used.

MSR is rethinking tent designs. That they would go back and look at why the Baker's tent was so popular for so long makes a lot of sense. Shrinking it down for backpacking does too. I'm impressed

This is a hydrostatic test number. It is the height of a column of water that will not leak through the fabric. In other words, stretch out the fabric, stand a tube on it, start filling it with water and measure the height at which the fabric starts to leak. 1500 is pretty much waterproof. Google for more info.

Ahh, got it. Just never thought of using a hydrostatic test to describe the material. I'm used to using them for other things. Makes a lot more sense now. Thanks! I wonder if it would really hold off 1.5 meters worth of water at 8.3lbs per gallon but if I'm in that kind of a storm I'm more interested in looking for an Ark than worrying about my tent! <grin>

Ah, but what's the pressure of a drop of water falling at terminal velocity? More than an equivalent volume of standing water, I'm sure.

Another good point. With all the ice and such we have here in East Tn right now I wonder if I could have set up a tent ahead of time, then taken it down and still had a perfect ice tent.
Melting might get things damp though...

I've never done the calculation before, but its pretty simple.

(I can show the derivation if anyone is interested, but) the equation to calculate the equivalent pressure from a column of water to a rain drop at a velocity is:

h = v^2/(2g)

g = acceleration of gravity = 9.81 m/s^2 = 32.2 ft/s^2

from here: http://www.shorstmeyer.com/wxfaqs/float/rdtable.html

the terminal velocity of a raindrop varies between 2 and 9 m/s. That works out to an equivalent pressure of:

h = 2*2/(2*9.81) = .2 m or 200 mm or 8 inches

to

h = 9*9/(2*9.81) = 4.1 m or 4100 mm or 160 inches

That was informative.

I remember the 32 feet per second per second from high school physics (I refuse to say how long ago that was, but it was a LONG time), but the rest of it might as well be in Martian!

That's cool stuff BZH.

I really am jealous over they way you can understand and do those calculations.

The final description I could convert to code, but the formula, I cannot decipher that. That's where I get hung up.

Nice! But if you REALLY want to make it interesting do it using common-core.

(Shall I just run and hide now before you have me hung?)

Nice, BZH! So if I'm understanding it correctly, the take away is that the equivalent pressure is anywhere from 200mm to 4100mm, depending on the speed of the rain drop. That just goes to show how potentially insufficient a tent could be, since they typically have a treatment rated anywhere from 500mm (for a cheapie) to 2000mm. Of course, we know, in practice, a higher rating isn't (usually) needed, which lead me to believe rain drops traveling that fast are pretty rare. I wonder if that's only the wind driven ones that get up to those speeds?

Sorry, I really will try to stop hijacking this thread now.

hmmm.... the take-away is a bit more difficult. In short you understand it correctly. I would think a big heavy rainstorm will contain drops that hit a tent at sufficient velocity to push water through its fabric. Obviously that rain drop will not pass through unabated. I think the dynamics of what happens when that drop hits the fabric and interacts with water from other drops is pretty complicated. Most of the water will run done the rain fly and drop out the bottom, though some will run down the inside the rain fly and still drop out the bottom. That is why tents have historically been made with fabrics (cotton) with very little water resistance and still functioned fine as a rainfly. It is also why you shouldn't touch the inner wall of the tent.

To flame the common core comment: I am a fan of common core. I actually did this problem first using common core techniques. I looked at the equation then looked up the velocity and quickly estimated in my head the highest pressure is slightly less than 4.5 m. I redid the calculation on my calculator to get a more precise answer. A lot of people don't like common core because they learned differently (I was taught differently). Just because a system is different doesn't its bad. Now, there is a lot of horrible examples of common core floating around. Those problems/solutions were created by people who don't understand common core math. Ok... I will get off my soap box now....

You leave the clear plastic down at bedtime and you will still pick up heat while the fire is burning down, correct? And the overhead will reflect even more heat (and some smoke?) back towards your sleeping area. What did you make that out of?

I have played with a Whelen style leanto over the years and always wanted a Baker to put a bug net on the front and maybe a stove jack for the cold...

It was pitching a tarp in a Whelen style leanto that really got me to thinking about a Baker's Tent too.

I made this out of SOL Emergency blankets. I taped most the seams with 3M clear fiber reinforced duct tape, the edges with fiber reinforced clear strapping tape, and the front panel is made with 2mil clear plastic "visqueen". I learned about that in another post from a member here who made a Pup tent out of SOL blankets.

Here's a video where I describe the tent a bit , and here's one showing it with a campfire warming it.

The biggest downside is when you don't have a campfire going it builds up condensation bad if you've got that visqueen front pinned down. I haven't put any ventilation up near the ceiling yet, and that might help, but the nights I've spent down on the River banks it was ready to pour like rain inside by sunrise.

On the plus side, it will dry out really fast if you have the front facing the sunrise or you build a fire. You can even dry wet clothes in it on a damp day pretty quickly that way.

I can tell you that most of the people I've backpacked with probably think I'm a little off kilter because of that tent. It's about as Hobo looking as a tent can get. I'm well aware it's not pretty. I didn't spend any time at all trying to make it pretty. I just wanted to see how well it would work with a campfire.

As it turns out, I like it better than any tent I've ever had, and by a very long way too. I've been tempted to make one like it out of silnylon (I wouldn't use it with a campfire though), but it would be heavier. I'll probably make another like this, but before I do I'll cut some vents in this one to see how they might work out.

The only time I camped with someone who had one (canvas) it was very fiddly getting the pitch right and taut, but wonderful space inside and the canvas was very good in a steady rain. I have wanted to DIY one from lighter weight canvas (7 oz) and either poly or nylon sides and then have a snap on, snap off (or zip or velcro) bug front that you could almost stand up in (for weeks of Adirondack black fly season) and maybe the same for a potential hot tent annex. Not somethat that you could walk in but would be good for my preferred canoe/kayak camping with my boys.

Always thought this style of tent would be a natural for a crossing poles design and make it more or less freestanding.

Your design-build works very nicely!~

After using mine for a bit I got over messing around trying to pitch it perfectly. It's usually a bit twisted up, but that's because I usually just tie it off to trees if I can and the angles of the guy lines don't often match from side to side.

If you made a two person tent then tent poles would be great because you could split up the weight between you, and freestanding is always good.

We've discussed making a Baker's Tent out of cotton sheets treated with waterproofing. That would be an inexpensive and fun project. I'd almost have to tie dye it.

I've also considered making one big enough to stand up in with the SOL material. I think that should work pretty good too.

I found a manufacturer last year who would more or less custom sew whatever size you wanted, change the height of the back wall, add screening, side walls, or a whole annex... pretty much a dream base camp tent for me. Would be cheaper in the end to DIY, learn how to sew, buy a used machine and be ahead in the end, plus the karmic payback of the DIY...

I am going to get a sample swatch from the guy who sells 7 oz canvas, which is single weave (and maybe not Sunforger like) but there are so many ways to get some fabric waterproofing.

From the scrap pile of old tents I could probably scrounge enough folding poles for the 4 corners and maybe a adjustable nylon strap for the long runs on the front and back horizontal seams.

I like my Whelen just enough to really consider this as a project or purchase. With the weight and bulk my iteration would strictly be a basecamp from canoe/kayak.

Your proof of concept as far as the fire and interior heat gain is favorably noted. The tie die would just be bonus!

Does anyone else who camped in a canvas tent when they were little (I was 5) recall being told that they couldn't touch the sides when the tent was wet, or the water would come through?

I followed that advice all through scouts, and didn't question it.

BZH

Thank you. The equations were cleanly laid out, and I could follow them. Much of what I've been reading for the last couple years really makes sense now.

Steadman

Hot tenters use canvas tents of different styles with wood stoves in very cold weather, down to -30C or colder. www.wintertrekking.com is the place to learn all about hot tenting.
FYI, there is a thread on wintertrekking about traditional v. high tech clothes that I started when I joined the site 6 years ago that is still going on, I am pleased to say. It's an interesting topic with some great comments on how different materials work at different temperatures.

Interesting stuff. The cube makes sense. I love the canopy too.

once have the door flap attach at the bottom but it can work well