Have you guys ever backpacked with an eno hammock opposed to a tent? The one I'm looking at is 17 oz. I've been backpacking now for about 4 or 5 years, hiking my entire life. I'll probably be doing most of camping in central Florida. Is it worth getting the hammock opposed to a tent, I don't know what type of tent yet.

How durable are the ENOs
Is it worth it?
Any experience with them?

Eno is heavier than most brands, but I've never seen a 17oz Eno. (17oz is lightweight) I've backpacked with a hammock as opposed to a tent several times and really enjoyed it. I still use a tent for trips that may be on bald mountains or in high wind area.

I currently have two tents and one hammock set up, one of my tent is lighter than hammock set up, but another tent is heavier than hammock setup. The thing about hammocks is that everything adds up. You'll need a tarp, bug net, then some form of insulation whether it's underquilt and top quilt combo, or sleep pad and top quilt, or sleep pad and sleeping bag.. etc. It's fun to add and subtract accessories and customize your options, but it does get pricey having that kind of choice. (but isn't that the point of a hobby? )

Eno's quilts, tarps, etc., are heavier than cottage manufacturers. With a proper setup and site locations you can shield yourself from the element and I'm betting in Florida it's nicer in a hammock than a tent.

Anyhoo, here a list of cottage manufacturers to look at:

Warbonnet
Dream Hammock
Wilderness Logics

If I was getting a new hammock today, I'd probably be buying Thunderbird from Dream Hammock. I have a Tadpole tarp from Wilderness Logics. I'm currently using a Grand Trunk Hammock, but I don't like it and it made from similar or same material as Eno.

Edit: Some times back, I looked at that complete kit you can buy from Eno that comes with tree straps, hammock, tarp, bug net, and all that. That kit was nearly 4 pounds!! My complete setup is around 2.5 pounds and I can go lighter with different hammock. That why I said Eno is heavier than cottage manufacturers and others.

Thank you, very helpful and on the hammock comparison page for eno it says that the single nest is 17 oz

Hammock to me have exactly the same problem some shaped tarps do.
You start with a very low weight for the main item but by the time you have all the bits to use them with , they are not all that light.
So for example you are attracted to the 17oz weight for the single nest.
Now include the straps, 12oz, rain tarp,22oz, stakes for the tarp, bug net 16oz..
add all of that up in weight and dollars to see the full picture, or just look here :

http://www.eaglesnestoutfittersinc.com/product/ONLK-SH.html

ENO is just HEAVY. My entire kit is 2.5 pounds. The rope selections, etc., all play a role in reducing weights. My tarp only weighs 10 ounce. There folks out there with sub 2 pound hammock setup. The fabric of hammock and tarp are the biggest factors, then you start reducing weight with straps and ropes. Parachute materials are heavier than rip stop nylon. (Least in my experience.) Amsteel is very popular amount gram counters because it's very light and strong. Instead of using carabiners they tie their knots different while using toggles. Lot of ways to reduce and cut weight out of a hammock setup.

And yet - they are so much more comfortable than any tent, and so much more pleasant to use in a rainstorm, that I keep using a hammock....

In my view comfort is what is all about too*, however I just wanted to point out that the 17oz mentioned are far from the in use weight for an hammock set up.
*in my case that is a balance between in camp and on shoulder comfort...

Now that you have mentioned that, Dream hammock has a material call Taffeta? (not sure if I spelled that correctly?) I have no clue how it's weaved or anything, but his website listed this material at 1.8 ounce? So it comes to about 25 ounces with bugnet and rest of features needed for hanging.(Probably weighs slight more, but my I'm too lazy go double check. lol) But my point is you can get a ripstop nylon at 1.1oz single layer and it weight 6ounce not counting the ropes. But people are buying Dream hammock and carrying extra weight for Taffeta vs ripstop nylon because the weave in Taffeta is more comfortable than plain ripstop to some folks. Hammock is just another realm in sense of customizable and ability to keep trying different fabrics and fabric combinations as well as symmetry of hammock until you find that right comfort.

of course you if you weight over 200 pounds do not use a 1.1oz single layer ripstop.

And yet I do not CARE at all... me, who has trimmed ounces out every nook and cranny...

Sleeping is not optional. Sleep is 100% better in a hammock. The first essential is the mind - the mind works best with adequate sleep and adequate hydration. So my math will continue to be in favor of good functioning, and my pack weight is still less than 25 lbs.

I understand what all of you are saying and it's probably alll true, but I do agree with Lori I think it would be much more comfortable than a tent would be, also I can use it for just hanging out at the house in the woods or at the beach (cuz I have that down here ha) I mean I still have to weight my options, because I won't be living down here for much longer, 2-3 years at the least I will be in Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, or Montana.

The problem with a hammock is if you're camping near or above timberline--there's no place to hang it! For example, in Wyoming's Wind River Range you'll be camping above timberline most of the time, and below timberline you usually have to camp out in meadows or in thickets of small trees because so many bigger trees have been killed by bark beetle.

It's also a bit difficult to get a Lab-size dog into a hammock, while in the tent the dog was part of my sleep system.

I find a nice thick squashy insulated air pad more comfy than a hammock (less pressure on hip and shoulder joints when on my side), but of course the weight in the pack is pretty much the same.

As a moderator, I can delete your duplicate thread if you wish.

Yes please oregonmouse, it's the eno hammock post that is the shortest

I deleted your other post, but moved Lori's reply to it here, as it contains useful info.

EDIT, LATER: Well, that didn't work. Here's the text of Lori's post on the other thread:

My hammock is from a company called "Butt In A Sling" (BIAS for short) and the model I have, the Weight Weenie, comes in at about 7 oz. Put that together with an inexpensive silnylon tarp I purchased from Campmor and the two together don't make it to 2 pounds. If bugs are an issue I have worn a head net instead of using a full bug screen so there's another way to cut down on the weight. And, while I understand the comments about being above tree line, about 95% of my trips are either in the Catskills or Adirondacks of NYS. Plenty of trees there so I don't currently worry about not finding a place to hang my hat for the night; so to speak. That's all for now. Take care and until next time...Be well.

snapper

PS - I weigh about 210 and so far this has all worked well for me.

I have found that going with a hammock instead of a lightweight tent does not mean a lighter pack. The dichotomy between tent and hammock is about comfort. Do you prefer sleeping on the ground or in a hammock?
If you wanted to ultralight and use a hammock:

1. Grand Trunk Nano-7, weighs 7 ounces.
2. Paracord for suspension, less than an ounce
3. Cuben fiber solo tarp, Zpacks has one that weighs 5 oz
4. Gossamer Gear insulation pad, 2.5 oz
5. Gossamer Gear Stakes (8): 2.5 oz

Total weight: Roughly 20 ounces.

If you aren't a fan of trekking poles, now you can leave them at home! Which will save you some weight. That said, sleeping on the ground is always a lighter option.

1. Cuben Fiber Zpacks tarp: 5 ounces
2. Paracord (tie to trees): 1 ounce
3. Gossamer Gear polycryo ground cloth: 1.5 oz
4. Stakes: 2.5 oz
5. Gossamer Gear insulation: 2.5 oz

Total weight: less than 13 oz

You need more insulation on a hammock, so add that too.
Remember bridges freeze first.
The upside is of course that they are cooler in hot weather, the kind of weather they were originally made for like the West Indies.

But comfort is comfort so a few ounces or a pound or so does not make up for that.
In my case, I can't sleep at night on a hammock, I can for an afternoon nap but that is it.

That's a good one "butt in a sling" and yea I'll check that out

Insulation is subjective to the individual. The Gossamer Gear insulation pads are incredible for how hammock camping. They keep the wind from stealing your heat. Ultimately, backpacking is for personal enjoyment. Enjoy walking with a lighter pack or enjoy sleeping 'more comfortably'. There is a balance for everyone to find.

I have laid in a few friends ENOs. Never been comfortable. They are too short and narrow for me. I am 5' 11" for what it's worth.

The same insulation you use on the ground works fine. Don't know why you are pretending otherwise. I have use the same pads in a hammock without issues, as long as you have clothes or a short pad to block convection where your arms inevitably leave the narrow pad in the sprawly - good comfort of a nice wide hammock. A wide pad from gossamer gear works to the 40s without extra measures but another pad is needed when it is colder, since those pads are thin and would have the same r value on the ground - around 1.5 at best.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/atmospheric/question566.htm
BTW, there are plenty of trees all over the world yet it isn't by chance the the hammock originated in countries with hot humid nights.
Try this : the next windy day , lay down on the ground for 5 minutes or so then lay across two chairs for the same time .
Is it colder on the ground or 2 feet up ?
(if you have an anemometer with wind chill display, measure the temperature at ground level and 2 feet up)

Again if a hammock is more comfortable for you the difference in tot weight or cost or whatever is irrelevant.

For what it is worth, I tried a hammock once and did not like it. Even in Michigan I had trouble finding two trees the correct distance apart. 5' is too close and 20' is too far and if you want to position it to avoid wind it just makes it that much harder. It got down to about 50° at night and it was cold with my normal pad. I had taken an emergency blanket so that solved the temperature part but it was noisy. I realize that is solvable. The biggest problem was that everything ends up in the bottom of the hammock. Flashlight, glasses, book etc. I decided that the tent worked better for me YMMV

All the mis-use of science in the world does nothing to refute the fact that the pad works the same in the hammock. It is not colder than the ground. The pad blocks the wind. A wide one totally blocks, a narrow ground pad requires assistance.

You can go back to talking about things you actually use any time, and stop embarrassing yourself in front of the hammock users. We use the stuff. You just want to - what? tell people they don't work so you can sell more tarp tents? Wikipedia articles on wind chill do nothing to prove your "point."

Go over to hammock forums for a while and watch all the countless ways to be warm in a hammock fill your screen. Watch Shug on Youtube for a while at subzero temperatures. It may not make sense to you, but there are those who choose destinations based on whether or not you can hammock there. I'm not one of them - I use tents when I have to - but I will not let you go unchallenged when you're pretending something that works does not work, because even if there are extra steps to it pads will work well enough to get started in hammocking, until one is able to buy in and invest in the quilts. Which, IMO, make it WARMER for me in a hammock than I have ever been on the ground.

Hundreds of hammock users in all climates are there, on the internet, rolling their eyes at this sort of claim you're making. Sure, they originated in warmer climates. Are you going to stop using nylon for tents because the Incans didn't use it? Why expect hammock users to pretend that they only get to camp in warm climates because the original hammocks came from the jungle?

I have, for your information, hammock camped successfully all night in a gusty and windy hillside without a shred of chill. There is this thing called a TARP that made it possible. It also helped us boil water - since my friend the tent user could not keep her Jetboil lit in the wind, she came in and joined me, and successfully boiled her water under my tarp while I used my puny alcohol stove to do the same. The wind was bending trees and pulled her solo tent loose. I slept really, really well. All my gear was on the ground under me. It was all there the next morning....

Hammock camping involves a steeper learning curve, but it's not what you think it is.

Correct distance apart is not a real problem - there are adjustable knotless suspension options available.

It's hard to stay on a normal pad in a hammock without side insulation merely due to the width of the hammock and narrowness of the pad - hammockers routinely use clothing or a loosely hung poncho under the hammock for this purpose.

A fixed ridge line with a pouch or a hammock with a shelf gives you somewhere to put drifting items - or a stuff sack attached at the head end whipping.

All these things are do-able and cheap....

Sorry you had one bad experience, but a little research fixes it. The only real impediment to someone who wants a hammock - or anything else - to work, is time and lack of information.

I realize that all of these things were fixable. I just did not find the hammock more comfortable than sleeping in a tent and the weight savings were not there. For "ME" the negatives outweighed the positives. For others the positives of a hammock outweighed the negatives. YMMV

It's also worth pointing out that an under quilt will engulf your entire backside. (Depending on size you buy.) The weight of many under quilt are about the same or less than those of a pad..Depending on material used and loft.

When you got insulated under quilt and top quilt wrapped around you it's blocking all the cold out...

Been gone for a few days but wanted to just add a personal experience regarding hammock use. I was out last weekend in the Catskills and woke up to snow on the ground; which was NOT expected. I'd slept very well that night in my Big Agnes 15 F sleeping bag and my Therma-rest full length pad that had been slipped into the pocket built into the sleeping bag. My wife told me when I got home that the temperatures where I was had dropped into the mid twenties that night. At no point during the night was I ever cold or felt a draft and my night clothes were a lightweight wool Ibex top, the lightest polypro long underwear bottoms I own and a pair of wool socks. I wore a fleece beanie but it got too hot so I took it off. Throughout the night there was a pretty good breeze but nothing ever affected my sleep or being warm. In other words, a good pad that's well placed can work for you. And besides, it gives you more flexibility if you need to go back to the ground some evening.

Just my thoughts and experience. Take them for what it's worth. Until next time...Be well.

snapper

[quote]...it [the Thermarest pad] gives you more flexibility if you need to go back to the ground some evening/quote]

Sounds like a good idea!

This is exactly the reasoning people use when they are getting into backpacking, by the way - the process of being a hammock user is just the same as backpacking. Many, many details to learn and many choices to make, and a long journey into it - for some. For others - it's like second nature and they just take to it, almost like it's instinct.

A friend uses a net hammock - cheap, just a bunch of rope knotted together. It shouldn't work. He makes it work. Sleeping bag and Thermarest, and if it's windy or weather-y, he just wraps up in a hunter's blanket (nylon tarp, mylar backing, grommets - cheap).

Hammocks can be very light solutions, or they can be comfort palaces. My hammock is the one place I want to be when it's storming. No mud and leaves in my bed. No problem sitting up, boiling water for tea, and keeping all my gear dry. You choose your comforts.... I sleep a lot better in the hammock, but in my specific hammock - not all hammocks are the same and not all of them let you side sleep, stomach sleep, or sprawl out.

But, not everyone "gets" a hammock or chooses to. That has to be ok - just like it has to be ok that not everyone gets backpacking.

I would be interested in seeing a side by side comparison of the different backpacking hammocks, like which ones let you side sleep or sprawl out. My limited experience has my way of thinking about hammocks as narrow, arched, confined space. I know I'm wrong but just can't see spending a ton of money trying to figure out what works best. I guess if I was really serious about it I could google search a few hammock forums then do some reading.

Or you could go to hammock forums and see when the next "hang" is - hammock hangers love to hang out together, and there are dozens of different hammocks in use at a hang.

I have locally found various folks to backpack with who have other brands of hammock - easy to ask for a few minutes in, to see how it fits.

Stomach sleepers are best served by one type of hammock - the bridge. You can sleep in any position in one. Jacks R Better sells a couple of weights of bridge hammock.

All asymmetrical hammocks, or wide hammocks, let you sleep on the diagonal - aka flat - such as the Warbonnet, the Switchback, the Hennessy, and other shaped hammocks. And that lets me sleep on my side, which is how I start out. The surprising thing is how comfortable any position can be - I end up adopting a hybrid position of back and side, twisting at the hip, that is never possible on the ground. In the morning I often wake on my back - something I can't really do comfortably anywhere else.

I started with a Hennessy and moved into a Warbonnet, and have no reason other than a gear geek's yen for collecting to have another hammock.

I'm contemplating buying a Dream Hammock next. Warbonnet is also on my list.

Well put, Lori.

lori,
You mention cooking, is that under the hammock which is covered by a tarp/cover? I like the not having to worry about ground water some bugs in a hammock. I procrastinate over maybe even trying a hammock, mostly due to not knowing what all bits and pieces I would need. Your last post helps alot on what type to get for sleeping flat or on ones side. Thank you.
Duane

What you need is fairly straightforward - the same things you need for any backpacking shelter. Wind block, precip deterrence, insulation, and anchor points. What's complicated - the sheer number of options a hammock affords you - far more than you have with a tent. It can be as simple as you want to make it, though.

The tarp is the equivalent of the tent fly - the size of the tarp is determined by whether you are a fair weather hiker looking to keep off showers or an adventurer who doesn't care if it's forecasted for wind and rain. I have a 9 x 11 caternary cut MacCat (four tie outs and two ridge line d rings) and a huge 11 x 13 tarp featuring four tie outs per side, which can be fastened down to the ground yet I can stand up inside (I'm 5' 7" tall). Most of the time I take the smaller tarp. I have on occasion closed up one end of the smaller tarp around the end of the hammock to block wind chill. It worked fine.

To combat chill from beneath, an under quilt or pads in the hammock - either works, and with a double layer hammock pads become less squirmy.

A very wide pad, a pad supplemented with narrow blue foam bumpers ala the Speer pad extender (these used to be up for sale til Speer hammocks went out of business, but are relatively simple to make) or with extra clothing around the edges, or two pads laid in a T configuration (shorter pad at the shoulders, to provide warmth for the torso) work okay. I have also in warmer weather used a hunter's blanket - the mylar-backed nylon tarp one sees sometimes in sports stores - and it does fine into the low 50s. It doesn't crinkle and is not so fragile as a simple mylar emergency blanket. Another version of this is the windshield solar reflector for a large truck - people score a couple of these at a discount store and take them hammocking. As on the ground, pads are additive. There are those who take pads into subzero temps while hammocking. Foam is perfectly comfy in a hammock unlike the ground... inflatable pads only need to be inflated to about half for hammock use, and are more comfortable in a hammock that way.

If there is much breeze, more like wind, something over the under quilt to cut the chill might be needed. Your poncho if you hike with one - or an emergency poncho, or a loosely hung trash bag, or one time I used my rain jacket along the windward side clipped to the edges of the quilt - you can be infinitely creative with multi use gear if you consider what you already have with you.

And the sleeping bag can be a quilt, if you find getting in the bag after getting into the hammock too clumsy. I find that the reduced bulk of an actual backpacking quilt is just right for hammock use. But plenty of people use bags in hammocks. Another trick - if you have a sit pad to use as a place to stand, you can put the sleeping bag on like clothing, standing on the pad, then sit in the hammock and swing up the feet. This helps if your hammock zipper (if you have a Blackbird, say) and the bag zipper are on opposing sides.

Using pads can add versatility. Here is my usual three season tarp set up in ground mode, in good weather at elevation where the trees became sparse. If there had been bugs I would have used the hammock as a bug bivy.


The hammock is the black tubular bag. It makes a dandy pillow when you are bivouacked on the ground for some reason. Alpine trees are too flexible to hold you up so I have done this twice - usually we are below tree line and fine.

Here is a Hennessy inside my large tarp with the far end closed up.



From the outside:


The thing about a hammock system is that you don't have to set up the hammock right away. You can put up the tarp, put down something dry to sit on, unpack the food, make dinner, have your friends in for cards, chat, and whenever you feel like it go about setting up - put on your rain gear again and get the suspension set, then string the hammock all up under the tarp. The rest of the pack contents come out when the hammock is ready to receive them.

There are other options, too. The pack and contents never have to touch the ground, in fact - it can be suspended from the hammock whipping. The hammock can be hung and then moved out of your way, by moving one of the stabilizing tie outs to the other side, pulling it against the side of the tarp. In one picture above I am repurposing a pack cover to hold gear and clothing, and it's dangling from the foot end of the hammock. I have also tied shoelaces together and dangled my shoes there, as well as threaded trekking pole straps around handles and hung them on the hammock. Marmots aren't going to eat my stuff again.

With a square of plastic or sit pad in the spot where your feet land, you can get in or out in stocking feet, or bare feet. In absence of a "ground sheet" I have put my crocs there. My dog, when she comes with, has the foam pad I use for sitting or standing. (This is a rare picture - a friend took it while I was still in the hammock. This is what it looks like "loaded")



Some of my personal data points as a reference:

Warbonnet Blackbird with whoopee slings and 6 foot tree straps: 28 oz
Two JRB 3 season quilts: 44 oz
MacCat tarp: 16 oz (with stakes and knotless guy lines)
5.5 lbs - the same as the old Kelty 2 person tent I used to have, but insulation included. the two quilts weigh about the same as the bag I started with. I used to have a shelter and insulation that weighed more than seven pounds, and then a Thermarest self inflator!

Lightheart Gear Solo: 28 oz
One JRB quilt: 22 oz
BA Q Core: 27 oz
77 oz, or 4.8 pounds - a whole ten ounces different. For less space, and less comfort. Hm.

Roll it again:
Lightheart Gear Solo: 28 oz
One JRB quilt: 22 oz
NeoAir medium (the original kind, not the new one): 13 oz.
Put my pack under my feet. 63 oz or 3.9 pounds.

The lightest option has the lowest R value. The Q core is more comfy and warmer. I have had both the Q Core and quilt AND two quilts on the hammock into the low 20s comfortably.

I could take probably 10 oz off the hammock setup by getting a half or 3/4 length under quilt and using the foam pad inside, under my feet.

"Hammocks are heavy" as compared to? well, yes. If you have a very light tent and a very light sleeping pad. Ten ounces is not going to kill me. My pack weight with the full hammock kit is still well below 30 lbs. including food and water, for 3-5 days.... a little closer to 30 if I throw in booze and fishing gear. As usual - priorities depend on your desired comfort levels, your planned activities, and your budget. I also have other hammock toys - a cover for the Blackbird's bug net for very cold weather hammocking, a DriDucks poncho reconfigured to be an under quilt weather shield, and a pad extender I made out of an old picnic blanket - but most of the time, the toys are left at home.

Hammock gear also tends to be exceptionally easy to make yourself, turning this into an easy way to backpack cheaply. Instructions on how to use a length of breathable nylon and a couple zip ties exist - add some Dynaglide or Amsteel line for suspension (you need something that has a very high break point, as physics of hammocks puts 700 - 1000 lbs of force on the suspension, so Home Depot poly rope won't cut it) and some tree straps, and get a blue poly tarp. Entry level cost minimal depending on how many of the ingredients you can scrounge.

The wider the hammock, the easier it is to lay flat. So a single person ENO is less comfortable than the double.

I made a Risk hammock (google this) out of strong silk. I haven't used it yet, but it's very comfortable and cost maybe thirty bucks. I need to add a ridge line and suspension. Playing with this stuff can be addictive.

Lori, thank you for the info, great pics also with the info. The only reason I would go to a hammock is for better sleeping. Smaller staked footprint than a tarp or tent, something I'm seeing in new shelters I've tried or about to try, at the expense of my wallet.
Duane

Awesome review, I'm settled on trying hammock camping now! New grounds for me, I can't wait. As a total newbie with hamocks what would you recommend, Lori?

Great conversation here. I have been out recently with my Byers Light hammock, light fly, Ridge Rest pad, and a NorthFace Everest Elite bag. I was very comfortable. Temp was 28F with a slight breeze.
After a couple trips, I can say my body definitely feels better waking up in a "sling" than on the ground.
For both my brother and I, hammocks really work!

I must have missed this.

A newbie has a dizzying array of choices to make. I would give the same advice as I would for a sleeping bag. If you choose one of the popular hammocks first, a Blackbird or a Switchback say, and find you want to return to tents and tarps on the ground, you'll be able to get a good price selling used on the hammock forum. And you increase your chances of finding comfort.

"The Ultimate Hang" is a little book full of the collected wisdom of many hangers - you would be much better informed much more quickly with it.

Myself and my two backpacking buddies are all hammock guys. I have a Grand Trunk and a Clark, they both have ENOs. My Grand Trunk and their ENOs are basically the same. As for durability, I nor either of them has had any issues in 3+ years of use.

With the climate in central FL, I would think you could be comfortable using a hammock essentially year-round. I use one of the cheap blue pads from Walmart, and find it perfectly sufficient insulation here in northern GA. I don't camp if the mercury is going to dip below 32, so I can't say how well it works in sub-freezing temps, but I've never woken up with cold butt.

Have you ever tried sleeping in a hammock overnight? It isn't for everyone, but for me there is no way I'd go back to sleeping on the ground. If possible, borrow one for a night.

I have used a two person Eno hammock on two occasions and it was great. The first time was mid summer I forget the day but their was what they call a super moon I think it looked like you could throw a rock at it. No tarp just a beautiful night only down fall was I was chilly I brought just a sheet and wound up very cold so I wrapped the hammocks two sides into each other and duct taped myself in lol. The second time was memorial day weekend 2012 in the Dolly Sods WV it poured. I am from Flood City and never saw it rain like that and for so long I was the only one who woke up completely dry thanks to the hammock and tarp a little duct tape and my poncho. Thank god for duct tape lol.