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#180408 - 10/30/13 11:32 AM Eno Hammocks
Ckurz Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 26
Loc: Florida
Have you guys ever backpacked with an eno hammock opposed to a tent? The one I'm looking at is 17 oz. I've been backpacking now for about 4 or 5 years, hiking my entire life. I'll probably be doing most of camping in central Florida. Is it worth getting the hammock opposed to a tent, I don't know what type of tent yet.

How durable are the ENOs
Is it worth it?
Any experience with them?

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#180409 - 10/30/13 01:04 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Ckurz]
ETSU Pride Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 933
Loc: Knoxville, TN
Eno is heavier than most brands, but I've never seen a 17oz Eno. (17oz is lightweight) I've backpacked with a hammock as opposed to a tent several times and really enjoyed it. I still use a tent for trips that may be on bald mountains or in high wind area.

I currently have two tents and one hammock set up, one of my tent is lighter than hammock set up, but another tent is heavier than hammock setup. The thing about hammocks is that everything adds up. You'll need a tarp, bug net, then some form of insulation whether it's underquilt and top quilt combo, or sleep pad and top quilt, or sleep pad and sleeping bag.. etc. It's fun to add and subtract accessories and customize your options, but it does get pricey having that kind of choice. (but isn't that the point of a hobby? grin)

Eno's quilts, tarps, etc., are heavier than cottage manufacturers. With a proper setup and site locations you can shield yourself from the element and I'm betting in Florida it's nicer in a hammock than a tent. cool

Anyhoo, here a list of cottage manufacturers to look at:

Warbonnet
Dream Hammock
Wilderness Logics

If I was getting a new hammock today, I'd probably be buying Thunderbird from Dream Hammock. I have a Tadpole tarp from Wilderness Logics. I'm currently using a Grand Trunk Hammock, but I don't like it and it made from similar or same material as Eno.

Edit: Some times back, I looked at that complete kit you can buy from Eno that comes with tree straps, hammock, tarp, bug net, and all that. That kit was nearly 4 pounds!! My complete setup is around 2.5 pounds and I can go lighter with different hammock. That why I said Eno is heavier than cottage manufacturers and others.


Edited by ETSU Pride (10/30/13 01:09 PM)
_________________________
It is one of the blessings of wilderness life that it shows us how few things we need in order to be perfectly happy.-- Horace Kephart

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#180412 - 10/30/13 03:19 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: ETSU Pride]
Ckurz Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 26
Loc: Florida
Thank you, very helpful and on the hammock comparison page for eno it says that the single nest is 17 oz

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#180414 - 10/30/13 07:25 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Ckurz]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 1010
Loc: Australia
Hammock to me have exactly the same problem some shaped tarps do.
You start with a very low weight for the main item but by the time you have all the bits to use them with , they are not all that light.
So for example you are attracted to the 17oz weight for the single nest.
Now include the straps, 12oz, rain tarp,22oz, stakes for the tarp, bug net 16oz..
add all of that up in weight and dollars to see the full picture, or just look here :

http://www.eaglesnestoutfittersinc.com/product/ONLK-SH.html

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#180417 - 10/30/13 09:30 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Franco]
ETSU Pride Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 933
Loc: Knoxville, TN
Originally Posted By Franco
Hammock to me have exactly the same problem some shaped tarps do.
You start with a very low weight for the main item but by the time you have all the bits to use them with , they are not all that light.
So for example you are attracted to the 17oz weight for the single nest.
Now include the straps, 12oz, rain tarp,22oz, stakes for the tarp, bug net 16oz..
add all of that up in weight and dollars to see the full picture, or just look here :

http://www.eaglesnestoutfittersinc.com/product/ONLK-SH.html


ENO is just HEAVY. My entire kit is 2.5 pounds. The rope selections, etc., all play a role in reducing weights. My tarp only weighs 10 ounce. There folks out there with sub 2 pound hammock setup. The fabric of hammock and tarp are the biggest factors, then you start reducing weight with straps and ropes. Parachute materials are heavier than rip stop nylon. (Least in my experience.) Amsteel is very popular amount gram counters because it's very light and strong. Instead of using carabiners they tie their knots different while using toggles. Lot of ways to reduce and cut weight out of a hammock setup.



_________________________
It is one of the blessings of wilderness life that it shows us how few things we need in order to be perfectly happy.-- Horace Kephart

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#180419 - 10/31/13 12:16 AM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Franco]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Franco
Hammock to me have exactly the same problem some shaped tarps do.
You start with a very low weight for the main item but by the time you have all the bits to use them with , they are not all that light.
So for example you are attracted to the 17oz weight for the single nest.
Now include the straps, 12oz, rain tarp,22oz, stakes for the tarp, bug net 16oz..
add all of that up in weight and dollars to see the full picture, or just look here :

http://www.eaglesnestoutfittersinc.com/product/ONLK-SH.html


And yet - they are so much more comfortable than any tent, and so much more pleasant to use in a rainstorm, that I keep using a hammock....
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#180420 - 10/31/13 01:08 AM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: lori]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 1010
Loc: Australia
In my view comfort is what is all about too*, however I just wanted to point out that the 17oz mentioned are far from the in use weight for an hammock set up.
*in my case that is a balance between in camp and on shoulder comfort...

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#180421 - 10/31/13 08:49 AM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Franco]
ETSU Pride Offline
member

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 933
Loc: Knoxville, TN
Originally Posted By Franco
In my view comfort is what is all about too*, however I just wanted to point out that the 17oz mentioned are far from the in use weight for an hammock set up.
*in my case that is a balance between in camp and on shoulder comfort...


Now that you have mentioned that, Dream hammock has a material call Taffeta? (not sure if I spelled that correctly?) I have no clue how it's weaved or anything, but his website listed this material at 1.8 ounce? So it comes to about 25 ounces with bugnet and rest of features needed for hanging.(Probably weighs slight more, but my I'm too lazy go double check. lol) But my point is you can get a ripstop nylon at 1.1oz single layer and it weight 6ounce not counting the ropes. But people are buying Dream hammock and carrying extra weight for Taffeta vs ripstop nylon because the weave in Taffeta is more comfortable than plain ripstop to some folks. Hammock is just another realm in sense of customizable and ability to keep trying different fabrics and fabric combinations as well as symmetry of hammock until you find that right comfort.

of course you if you weight over 200 pounds do not use a 1.1oz single layer ripstop. grin
_________________________
It is one of the blessings of wilderness life that it shows us how few things we need in order to be perfectly happy.-- Horace Kephart

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#180422 - 10/31/13 09:32 AM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Franco]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Franco
In my view comfort is what is all about too*, however I just wanted to point out that the 17oz mentioned are far from the in use weight for an hammock set up.
*in my case that is a balance between in camp and on shoulder comfort...


And yet I do not CARE at all... me, who has trimmed ounces out every nook and cranny...

Sleeping is not optional. Sleep is 100% better in a hammock. The first essential is the mind - the mind works best with adequate sleep and adequate hydration. So my math will continue to be in favor of good functioning, and my pack weight is still less than 25 lbs.

_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#180426 - 10/31/13 02:27 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: lori]
Ckurz Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 26
Loc: Florida
I understand what all of you are saying and it's probably alll true, but I do agree with Lori I think it would be much more comfortable than a tent would be, also I can use it for just hanging out at the house in the woods or at the beach (cuz I have that down here ha) I mean I still have to weight my options, because I won't be living down here for much longer, 2-3 years at the least I will be in Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, or Montana.

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#180427 - 10/31/13 03:31 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Ckurz]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6764
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
The problem with a hammock is if you're camping near or above timberline--there's no place to hang it! For example, in Wyoming's Wind River Range you'll be camping above timberline most of the time, and below timberline you usually have to camp out in meadows or in thickets of small trees because so many bigger trees have been killed by bark beetle.

It's also a bit difficult to get a Lab-size dog into a hammock, while in the tent the dog was part of my sleep system. smile

I find a nice thick squashy insulated air pad more comfy than a hammock (less pressure on hip and shoulder joints when on my side), but of course the weight in the pack is pretty much the same.

As a moderator, I can delete your duplicate thread if you wish.


Edited by OregonMouse (10/31/13 03:36 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#180430 - 10/31/13 05:24 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: OregonMouse]
Ckurz Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 26
Loc: Florida
Yes please oregonmouse, it's the eno hammock post that is the shortest

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#180437 - 11/01/13 12:54 AM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Ckurz]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6764
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I deleted your other post, but moved Lori's reply to it here, as it contains useful info.

EDIT, LATER: Well, that didn't work. Here's the text of Lori's post on the other thread:

Quote:
I have one, had to add a ridge line to it, and it's still too narrow to get the nice flat lay that one has with a hammock shaped to allow for that. With hammocks with no ridge line it's hard to get that ideal sag - so harder to set up properly. And the stock slap straps stretch too much, being nylon, so the first thing I did was tear off the stock suspension and add whoopee slings made of Dynaglide and some good long poly straps.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com


Edited by OregonMouse (11/01/13 01:02 AM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#180443 - 11/01/13 02:11 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: OregonMouse]
snapper Offline
member

Registered: 03/07/13
Posts: 56
Loc: NY
My hammock is from a company called "Butt In A Sling" (BIAS for short) and the model I have, the Weight Weenie, comes in at about 7 oz. Put that together with an inexpensive silnylon tarp I purchased from Campmor and the two together don't make it to 2 pounds. If bugs are an issue I have worn a head net instead of using a full bug screen so there's another way to cut down on the weight. And, while I understand the comments about being above tree line, about 95% of my trips are either in the Catskills or Adirondacks of NYS. Plenty of trees there so I don't currently worry about not finding a place to hang my hat for the night; so to speak. That's all for now. Take care and until next time...Be well.

snapper

PS - I weigh about 210 and so far this has all worked well for me.


Edited by snapper (11/01/13 02:20 PM)

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#180447 - 11/01/13 04:03 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: ETSU Pride]
JeremyRardin Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 13
I have found that going with a hammock instead of a lightweight tent does not mean a lighter pack. The dichotomy between tent and hammock is about comfort. Do you prefer sleeping on the ground or in a hammock?
If you wanted to ultralight and use a hammock:

1. Grand Trunk Nano-7, weighs 7 ounces.
2. Paracord for suspension, less than an ounce
3. Cuben fiber solo tarp, Zpacks has one that weighs 5 oz
4. Gossamer Gear insulation pad, 2.5 oz
5. Gossamer Gear Stakes (8): 2.5 oz

Total weight: Roughly 20 ounces.

If you aren't a fan of trekking poles, now you can leave them at home! Which will save you some weight. That said, sleeping on the ground is always a lighter option.

1. Cuben Fiber Zpacks tarp: 5 ounces
2. Paracord (tie to trees): 1 ounce
3. Gossamer Gear polycryo ground cloth: 1.5 oz
4. Stakes: 2.5 oz
5. Gossamer Gear insulation: 2.5 oz

Total weight: less than 13 oz

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#180450 - 11/01/13 04:49 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: JeremyRardin]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 1010
Loc: Australia
You need more insulation on a hammock, so add that too.
Remember bridges freeze first.
The upside is of course that they are cooler in hot weather, the kind of weather they were originally made for like the West Indies.

But comfort is comfort so a few ounces or a pound or so does not make up for that.
In my case, I can't sleep at night on a hammock, I can for an afternoon nap but that is it.

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#180451 - 11/01/13 05:22 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: snapper]
Ckurz Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 26
Loc: Florida
That's a good one "butt in a sling" and yea I'll check that out

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#180454 - 11/01/13 10:26 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Franco]
JeremyRardin Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 13
Insulation is subjective to the individual. The Gossamer Gear insulation pads are incredible for how hammock camping. They keep the wind from stealing your heat. Ultimately, backpacking is for personal enjoyment. Enjoy walking with a lighter pack or enjoy sleeping 'more comfortably'. There is a balance for everyone to find.

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#180576 - 11/07/13 05:56 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: JeremyRardin]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
I have laid in a few friends ENOs. Never been comfortable. They are too short and narrow for me. I am 5' 11" for what it's worth.
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I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#180581 - 11/07/13 11:42 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Franco]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
The same insulation you use on the ground works fine. Don't know why you are pretending otherwise. I have use the same pads in a hammock without issues, as long as you have clothes or a short pad to block convection where your arms inevitably leave the narrow pad in the sprawly - good comfort of a nice wide hammock. A wide pad from gossamer gear works to the 40s without extra measures but another pad is needed when it is colder, since those pads are thin and would have the same r value on the ground - around 1.5 at best.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#180584 - 11/08/13 01:03 AM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: lori]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 1010
Loc: Australia
http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/atmospheric/question566.htm
BTW, there are plenty of trees all over the world yet it isn't by chance the the hammock originated in countries with hot humid nights.
Try this : the next windy day , lay down on the ground for 5 minutes or so then lay across two chairs for the same time .
Is it colder on the ground or 2 feet up ?
(if you have an anemometer with wind chill display, measure the temperature at ground level and 2 feet up)

Again if a hammock is more comfortable for you the difference in tot weight or cost or whatever is irrelevant.


Edited by Franco (11/08/13 01:51 AM)

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#180591 - 11/08/13 05:59 AM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Franco]
GrumpyGord Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 936
Loc: Michigan
For what it is worth, I tried a hammock once and did not like it. Even in Michigan I had trouble finding two trees the correct distance apart. 5' is too close and 20' is too far and if you want to position it to avoid wind it just makes it that much harder. It got down to about 50 at night and it was cold with my normal pad. I had taken an emergency blanket so that solved the temperature part but it was noisy. I realize that is solvable. The biggest problem was that everything ends up in the bottom of the hammock. Flashlight, glasses, book etc. I decided that the tent worked better for me YMMV

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#180595 - 11/08/13 09:27 AM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: Franco]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Franco
http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/atmospheric/question566.htm
BTW, there are plenty of trees all over the world yet it isn't by chance the the hammock originated in countries with hot humid nights.
Try this : the next windy day , lay down on the ground for 5 minutes or so then lay across two chairs for the same time .
Is it colder on the ground or 2 feet up ?
(if you have an anemometer with wind chill display, measure the temperature at ground level and 2 feet up)

Again if a hammock is more comfortable for you the difference in tot weight or cost or whatever is irrelevant.


All the mis-use of science in the world does nothing to refute the fact that the pad works the same in the hammock. It is not colder than the ground. The pad blocks the wind. A wide one totally blocks, a narrow ground pad requires assistance.

You can go back to talking about things you actually use any time, and stop embarrassing yourself in front of the hammock users. We use the stuff. You just want to - what? tell people they don't work so you can sell more tarp tents? Wikipedia articles on wind chill do nothing to prove your "point."

Go over to hammock forums for a while and watch all the countless ways to be warm in a hammock fill your screen. Watch Shug on Youtube for a while at subzero temperatures. It may not make sense to you, but there are those who choose destinations based on whether or not you can hammock there. I'm not one of them - I use tents when I have to - but I will not let you go unchallenged when you're pretending something that works does not work, because even if there are extra steps to it pads will work well enough to get started in hammocking, until one is able to buy in and invest in the quilts. Which, IMO, make it WARMER for me in a hammock than I have ever been on the ground.

Hundreds of hammock users in all climates are there, on the internet, rolling their eyes at this sort of claim you're making. Sure, they originated in warmer climates. Are you going to stop using nylon for tents because the Incans didn't use it? Why expect hammock users to pretend that they only get to camp in warm climates because the original hammocks came from the jungle?

I have, for your information, hammock camped successfully all night in a gusty and windy hillside without a shred of chill. There is this thing called a TARP that made it possible. It also helped us boil water - since my friend the tent user could not keep her Jetboil lit in the wind, she came in and joined me, and successfully boiled her water under my tarp while I used my puny alcohol stove to do the same. The wind was bending trees and pulled her solo tent loose. I slept really, really well. All my gear was on the ground under me. It was all there the next morning....

Hammock camping involves a steeper learning curve, but it's not what you think it is.



_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#180596 - 11/08/13 09:31 AM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: GrumpyGord]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By GrumpyGord
For what it is worth, I tried a hammock once and did not like it. Even in Michigan I had trouble finding two trees the correct distance apart. 5' is too close and 20' is too far and if you want to position it to avoid wind it just makes it that much harder. It got down to about 50 at night and it was cold with my normal pad. I had taken an emergency blanket so that solved the temperature part but it was noisy. I realize that is solvable. The biggest problem was that everything ends up in the bottom of the hammock. Flashlight, glasses, book etc. I decided that the tent worked better for me YMMV


Correct distance apart is not a real problem - there are adjustable knotless suspension options available.

It's hard to stay on a normal pad in a hammock without side insulation merely due to the width of the hammock and narrowness of the pad - hammockers routinely use clothing or a loosely hung poncho under the hammock for this purpose.

A fixed ridge line with a pouch or a hammock with a shelf gives you somewhere to put drifting items - or a stuff sack attached at the head end whipping.

All these things are do-able and cheap....

Sorry you had one bad experience, but a little research fixes it. The only real impediment to someone who wants a hammock - or anything else - to work, is time and lack of information.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#180602 - 11/08/13 12:13 PM Re: Eno Hammocks [Re: lori]
GrumpyGord Offline
member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 936
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By lori


Sorry you had one bad experience, but a little research fixes it. The only real impediment to someone who wants a hammock - or anything else - to work, is time and lack of information.


I realize that all of these things were fixable. I just did not find the hammock more comfortable than sleeping in a tent and the weight savings were not there. For "ME" the negatives outweighed the positives. For others the positives of a hammock outweighed the negatives. YMMV

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