Hello all - my first post here. I'm relatively new to backpacking but I have a lot of experience in the outdoors. I've been hiking this year with a relatively heavy setup (e.g. Osprey Atmos 65, REI Lumen Bag, standard therm-a-rest, etc.). I want to make a switch to a lightweight setup - without sacrificing a lot of comfort. I have some resources so I'm willing to spend a few $s to get a good setup. I've been doing a fair amount of research and I'm zeroing in on the following core items:

Osprey Exos 46 backpack
Western Mountaineering Summerlite 32 bag
Therm-a-rest NeoAir XTherm pad
Mountain Hardware SuperMega UL 2 Tent

The Exos pack looks great and is super light, although I've never seen one in person (my current pack is an Osprey and I really like the suspension). The Summerlite bag was highly recommend by the Outdoor GearLab reviews. I like the Xtherm pad because of the higher R factor over the Xlite - with the only tradeoff I can see being $s. This higher R should help stretch that bag into 3 seasons (along with a nice silk bag liner). I like the MH SuperMega over the Fly Creek UL2 because of the full free standing nature.

I love REI and I'm planning to use the next 3 20% coupons for the pack, pad and tent. Unfortunately, REI does not carry WM. So I'll need to shop around for a sale on that item.

I'm also looking at all items in my pack for weight/space savings. I was shocked at how much low hanging fruity there was. For example, switching from the fleece jacket to the REI revelcloud saved over a pound and probably a liter or two of space.

I'd love to hear any thoughts, feedback or guidance on my directions. Thanks in advance!

Welcome!

Seems like a good gear list. I'll only recommend holding off on choosing a pack until you've made your other big changes, then deciding your volume and weight capacity needs.

Cheers,

As for REI, if you get their Visa you get an additional 5% off, with the 10% you get from being a member, basically it's 15% off everything that's not on sale.

I'd hold off on the Exos pack until you've replaced the rest of your gear (and eliminated any other items you decide you don't need.) I've used both the Atmos 50 and Exos 48. My own experience (a few weekends with both) was that the Exos was fine for loads up to 20 pounds; over that, the suspension (especially the hipbelt) wasn't sturdy enough to get any of the weight off my shoulders, and the hipbelt would slide down. (Keep in mind that I'm older, and my upper body strength isn't what it used to be.)

I'm not trying to talk you out of the Exos; it's a nice pack. But before you decide on it, you need to put a typical load into it and walk it around the store awhile.

You may be better off with the Atmos 50 (if you like your 65); if you're looking to move away from the Atmos series, take a look at the Osprey Kestrel 48 (or 58, if the 48 is too small.) It weighs about the same as the Atmos, but hugs your back better. (The difference in "ride" approximates the difference between my old external frame pack and my first internal frame pack.)

Other than that, it looks like a good plan to me.

I have a WM Summerlite and I love it. Had it restuffed and in fact overstuffed recently after quite a lot of miles and nights of use. I do think WM bags are worth the money.

On your tent selection, that's the lightest 2-person tent I've ever heard REI offering, but the catch is the price. You could get something like a Tarptent Squall 2 for $250 --- same weight, albeit a single-walled tent. Or a lightheart duo for $295, also about the same weight, and that one is essentially a double-walled tent. I own the Squall 2 and like it; I'd probably get a lightheart Duo if buying now, as I've so much appreciated their solo model.

I agree with those here and so many others who suggest deferring the pack replacement. I'm a fan of ULA packs as a good compromise between weight and features + durability, but not everyone prioritizes things in the same way. If you're set on buying from REI, last I looked the Osprey models were indeed the best choices I saw.

Those are good choices for REI but not as light as you can go. I have long since left REI behind - I go there for clothing sometimes, and maybe for a can of fuel.

I have a lightheart solo (28 oz) and it is versatile and light, and probably gets the least condensation out of any tent I've had. I got a quilt (22 oz) for $240 and haven't needed or wanted anything else for five years (except in winter but that is a different gear list). I have a NeoAir (one of the originals, 13 oz medium) still in service. And I just got a ULA Catalyst. My total pack weight including water, fuel, food, bear canister and fishing gear rings in at a massive 25 lbs for three days....

REI isn't the only game in town, and "ultralight" there is not really that ultralight. (Neither am I, at 25 lbs all in - I'd have to get down to 15 - but I am definitely more comfortable than I was with the Osprey Aura, the first sleeping bag I had, and the old double wall tent.)

Thanks to all for your thoughts. They really got me thinking. First, I see now there are at least two different approaches (or strategies or even philosophies) on choosing light gear:

Method 1, which was my path, entails looking at each item that needs to be carried and selecting one that lowers weight/volume while optimizing the other key parameters (e.g. price and the relevant capabilities). When all the items are purchased, they would be weighed, their volume assessed and the appropriate pack chosen. This follows the 'purchase the pack last' advice.

Method 2 is the polar opposite. Here, a volume/weight target is chosen and each item is selected such that the loaded pack, as a whole, can meet the target.

Lori's 25# pack sounds amazing. I can just imagine how much more energy I would have at camp with that weight pack (or how many more miles I could hike). But, if I follow method 1 I doubt there's any chance I'd get there. Still, method 2 sounds quite expensive and very time consuming.

As for REI, well yes I do like that store. First, they have several local storefronts where I can actually try out equipment. Second, their 'no questions asked' refund policy is just amazing. And, it's something I've taken advantage of quite often. Third, their online store is well stocked. They often have free shipping deals and any item ordered online can be refunded at a local store. Finally, the folks who work there (at least all the ones I've spoken with) are knowledgeable, outdoors enthusiast themselves and generally seem to be happy to be working there. Still, as I start digging in I see now a whole cottage industry supporting the light backpacking equipment world. In fact, I found a local supplier (Six Moon Designs) who make an incredible sub pound tent (1.5 pounds less than the MH tent I list above)! Yes, surely a Method 2 approach will rely on these types of suppliers.

I suppose I have some more thinking to do - and if I convert to a Method 2 approach I'll need to fire up my spreadsheet and pull out my postal scale!

Actually, lightening up is a multi-pronged approach. For starters, if you haven't already discovered the articles on the home page of this site, left-hand column, they will help you see what's involved.

It has been suggested that half the "base weight" of the pack (before adding the consumables of food, water, fuel) should consist of the "Big 4": shelter, pack, sleeping bag, sleeping pad. You can save pounds here. The rest is everything else in your pack and usually involves saving a few ounces at a time.

Reducing weight of the "Big 4" usually involves spending money, although some weight savings can be accomplished by, for example, butchery creative trimming of the pack, substituting titanium skewer stakes for heavier tent stakes, using lighter guylines, etc. However, the lightweight versions of the "Big 4" items generally don't cost any more, and in some cases cost less, than the "standard" brands found at REI. The one exception is the sleeping bag; for a truly lightweight, warm, long-lasting sleeping bag you really need to spend for high-quality down. Watch for sales. It doesn't happen every year, but some of the "cottage" firms have sales at the end of the year to reduce their inventory. Or you may find used versions; there are some "gearaholics" who always buy the latest models and finance this by selling their older gear.

Weight savings for the rest of your gear (the other half of your base pack weight) is more difficult; it involves such things as using multipurpose items (such as trekking poles to hold up the shelter, dental floss as sewing thread, etc.), eliminating duplicate items (such as multiple changes of clothes, with the important exception of socks), eating/drinking out of your cooking pot instead of taking cup and bowl, decanting things like sunscreen, bug repellent, etc into tiny dropper bottles containing just barely enough for the trip, a ruthless elimination of items that "might be nice to have" or "I might possibly need" but in actual practice are never used, etc. I still don't have this part of my gear quite as light as my "Big 4" after 7 years of trying, and there's always the temptation to add something back, which is hard to resist.

I notice you've already discovered Six Moon Designs' shelters and packs; also check out ULA Equipment (packs) and Tarptent (tents), both of whom are sponsors of this site (click their logos at the top of the page). A couple other excellent "cottage" firms are Mountain Laurel Designs and Gossamer Gear. If you want to go really lightweight regardless of expense, check out ZPacks, who make the lightest one and two-person tents on the market (Hexamid) and several cuben fiber packs. Of course cuben fiber not only lightens your pack but considerably lightens your bank account! ZPacks does manage to keep the prices of their cuben fiber items comparatively low, but they are still far more expensive than silnylon. I did break down and buy their Hexamid Twin tent, but I think I'll pass on most of the other cuben fiber stuff.

BTW, the often ridiculed (and sometimes seriously advocated) approaches to lightening up, cutting off clothing labels and your toothbrush handle, really aren't worth the effort. I religiously chopped the labels off my clothing when I started lightening up only to find that (1) all the labels from several pieces of clothing didn't even register as 1 gram on my scale and (2) I then had no record of the sizes, fabric content or laundry instructions of my clothing! Chopping up my toothbrush resulted in spending a lot more on dentistry in the long run (you can't effectively brush your back teeth with a one-inch toothbrush handle), and didn't save weight over a travel toothbrush or a child's toothbrush. There are many far more productive ways to save weight!

Interestingly, after my initial investment in the lighter "Big 4," my next big chunk of weight savings came in "skin out weight"--switching from boots to trail runners and to lighter weight trekking poles. Nothing to do with my pack weight, but certainly lighter and (especially the trail runners) far more comfortable!

Do watch out for frameless packs--don't be seduced by their light weight. You definitely want your total pack weight under 20 pounds before you go there--of course this varies by person (for me, it's more like under 10 lbs). Those packs to which you can add stays will carry more. Look at what the manufacturer states is the "maximum recommended weight" and, IMHO, subtract 5 pounds. Because the most important aspects of a pack are fit, fit and fit (just as important and as individual as shoe fit), it's vital that your pack fit you and comfortably support your gear. I'd wait to get a lighter pack until you have your other gear pretty much where you want it. Then try lots of different packs (which may cost a lot in return postage, but it's worth it) with your gear inside (including the equivalent in weight and bulk of a week's food, and a bear canister if the places you backpack require one) until you find the pack that feels just right for you. Remember that in some places (desert or even trips along ridges in late summer) you may have to carry several quarts of water, which brings the pack weight up in a hurry (2 pounds per quart of water times 3 quarts...).

The path I took to get to 25 lbs was long and expensive.

What you must factor into the equation is you - where do you want to go? how often do you want to go there? Is it worth it to you to really put forth the effort to identify and pursue the Perfect Gear For You?(tm)

I go pretty much every month, if not every weekend, so it is very worth it to me. I suggest figuring out where and when first, and what temperatures you will face. The rest will follow. Don't shortcut on things that MUST fit or MUST work to keep you safe and warm. Trying to cheap out killed my wallet in the long run - six backpacks later, at least ten tents, and my what a stove collection I have now.... I was very, very lucky I took the chance on the quilt. It paid off - I don't have to carry bulk and I'm still warm.

Another thing you have to remember - skill. Staying warm is also something you DO - eat well, stay hydrated (this is a helluva lot harder than one would think!), and take care of your bag. I take a walk before climbing in for the night, to get the blood going. I hike every weekend I can, keeping up the metabolism as much as I can. I have found that I sleep warmer after a 10 mile day than I do after a 4 mile day. All this is learned. It took me a while to find my balance and I still lose it sometimes - this weekend I managed to not hydrate well enough, and I paid for it, my legs are now a bit more sore than they should be (usually they are not at all).

My method has been trial and error, mostly because I did not discover forums until after I had already wasted a lot of time and money.... There are ways to shortcut by talking to people who go backpacking where you want to go, and seeing how they pack. And by posting gear lists on forums like this one.

My gear list is not so unusual or full of hard-to-come-by items... it includes an REI midweight base layer, in fact. The ULA Pack, Gossamer Gear Poles, Jacks R Better Quilt, and LightHeart Tent can't be found at REI, but the Platypus Big Zip 2 liter, the Sawyer Squeeze, Sea to Summit waterproof bags, Smartwool PhD socks, zipoff pants, and a pair of decent shoes can be. Though I typically buy the name brand maker items that I know for sure work for me at Sierra Trading Post - I picked up a Marmot 0 degree bag (our winters are that mild) for less than wholesale there.... And they have killer deals on clothing. I wear out socks and pants at an atrocious rate, so get the ones that work for me whenever I see them on deep discount at STP.

The real key to going light is - don't take what you don't need. Simplify your food, simplify your gear, figure out what your real expectation should be - what your body's limits really are. If you had told me 20 years ago that I would be climbing high passes and bushwhacking through thorny underbrush to drop a fly in the Little Kern in search of golden trout this past weekend, I would have thought you were crazy. But the pack being as light as it was really helped, and had more to do with what I left behind.

Spend the bucks on the big four, go cheap and light as you can on the rest, enjoy figuring out the details as you go.

I just want to second what Brian Le has said.

I'm very familiar with the trails in western PA, especially the AT. Yes, it can sometimes get quite cold in the mountains in the shoulder seasons. But I use the WM Highlight (rated about 35 or 40) down to well below freezing (albeit in a very light bivy and with clothes on) and slept very snugly. It weighs one pound and compresses to almost nothing in the bottom of my pack.
Best, jcp