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#161902 - 02/09/12 06:24 PM Good Old Heavy Weight Days
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
I have been scanningn old slides. Oh, the good old days of 70 pound packs! To be fair, this photo was taken when I was helping someone who was ill by strapping their sleeping bag on top of my pack.


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#161905 - 02/09/12 06:45 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: wandering_daisy]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3967
Loc: Bend, Oregon
WD
wow that iceaxe has a wooden shaft. It looks like a Stubai?
Looks like a Jansport pack.
And leggings?
Jim


Edited by Jimshaw (02/09/12 06:47 PM)
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These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#161907 - 02/09/12 06:58 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: wandering_daisy]
Heather-ak Offline
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Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
This is awesome pic - Thank you for sharing!

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#161917 - 02/09/12 08:09 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: Heather-ak]
Kent W Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 607
Loc: IL.
Reminds me of Pop on his last backpacking trip to Isle Royale at age 72. Took a pic of his old Wilderness Experience external frame pack and scale at 65 pounds. The old man was proud!

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#161959 - 02/10/12 03:07 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: wandering_daisy]
anicinabe Offline
member

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 61
Loc: Ohio
That's definitely a good picture! Amazing how far we have come. My first trek was with a jansport pack and a canvas tent. I cooked with a small iron skillet over a Svea stove. Ended up with burnt lips off the sierra cup. Lots of good memories though.

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#161961 - 02/10/12 03:56 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: anicinabe]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3967
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Its amazing how popular sierra cup derivitives are considering that we all burned our lips on the originals decades ago.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#161964 - 02/10/12 04:32 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: Jimshaw]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Upstate NY
My father came to visit last summer so I took him canoeing as he is a little too old to backpack anymore. He proudly brought his sierra cup along. I wish I took a photo of him smiling as he dipped it into the pristine lake and took a drink.
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#161978 - 02/11/12 06:52 AM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: wandering_daisy]
tenpoint Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/11/12
Posts: 1
AWESOME PIC. JUST BOUGHT A PACK THAT LOOKS ALOT LIKE THAT ONE, FOR $20.00 BUCKS. JUST GETTING STARTED IN THIS BACKPACKING STUFF. A CO-WORKER TRYING TO GET ME INTO IT. WISH ME LUCK!

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#161983 - 02/11/12 12:48 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: wandering_daisy]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
That's a beautiful pic. Your scanner's doing a great job. After that excellent guide book, you really ought to consider your next book being about your hiking experiences; many of us would enjoy reading it.

Is that a DENIM shirt??

.
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#162016 - 02/12/12 04:15 AM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: DTape]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
A sierra cup, or one of its (stainless steel) derivatives, BTW:



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#162017 - 02/12/12 08:10 AM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: kevonionia]
Barefoot Friar Offline
member

Registered: 01/23/09
Posts: 176
Loc: Houston, Alabama
I used to take one of those blue metal mugs on trips, and I've burned my tongue pretty bad on them before. And my fingers.

I've switched to a plastic that's lighter and won't burn me.
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#162024 - 02/12/12 12:13 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: wandering_daisy]
BradMT Offline
member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 151
You're a cutie!

Big old Kelty Pack and ash-stocked ice axe.

Never was a Kelty man myself, I carried a Jansport D-3 through to about 1979 when I switched over to internal frame packs... haven't had an external since then.

I still have my circa 1975 Svea 123, Sierra Cup and REI wood ice axe.

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#162026 - 02/12/12 01:05 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: BradMT]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
You know, sure that stuff was a bit heavier folks, but really, you're all picking on that pack, when really, I don't recall those packs being all that heavy or bad.. the sleeping bag on the other hand, I mean like today, I can't imagine carrying anything that big outside of deathly winter wink

I'm having a hard time thinking that really all of the difference in what I carry today is due to the gear. While my shelter is a lot lighter, it's usually a one man shelter and I always used to carry a 2 man pup and share. My sleeping bag is a *lot* lighter, and ok, my pack is too, but my old canadian tire external framer is not as heavy as a lot of internal frame packs. IMO a lot of the fact that the "good old days" were heavier is not so much my gear, but my experience. I used to take a much more complex (and heavy) kitchen setup (peak 1 stove, full mess kit) heavier food, more changes of clothing, socks, etc. 16 and stupid just isn't the same as 43 and stupid wink

(If only I could put my 43 year old mind in my 16 year old body...)




Edited by phat (02/12/12 01:07 PM)
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#162028 - 02/12/12 01:14 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: phat]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 666
Loc: Upstate NY
I agree.

My WFS Mt Blanc external frame is 3lbs 10oz. Certainly heavier than my frameless packs, but still lighter than some of the behemoth internals that people still buy today. It is also much more comfortable to carry than the giant internals. Since it is an "L" frame, it make a great seat at camp too.

I have said in the past that the old gear was not necessarily heavier. Lightweight backpacking isn't new, just designs and materials have changed. The most limiting factors in the past for going lightweight is the same as now, knowledge and money. Cheap gear is most often heavier regardless of the decade.
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#162029 - 02/12/12 01:21 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: phat]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
phat:

"my old canadian tire external framer"

You're forgetting alot of us 'down here' are unfamiliar with that pack. Was it like a jansport?


(. . . nice camper, too.)
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(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#162033 - 02/12/12 01:38 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: kevonionia]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By kevonionia
phat:

"my old canadian tire external framer"

You're forgetting alot of us 'down here' are unfamiliar with that pack. Was it like a jansport?
[/i]


yeah, pretty much a no-name jansport ripoff
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#162034 - 02/12/12 01:39 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: phat]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3967
Loc: Bend, Oregon
When I had a Jansport my base weight was 19 pounds for my summer on the PCT. A lot of the old gear was not that much heavier despite what people say or believe. In the old days people carried more of it and often took home cooking items - frying pan etc, and stoves were heavy. You might end up with 5 pounds in a cookkit and a 15 pounds tent, but if you used a 6 ounce plastic tube tent and an aluminum pan over a campfire, you could save 19 pounds right there. Don't forget the cruiser axe and the Bowie knife. If you packed gear with the same eye to light weight, you could go almost as light 30 years ago. Just because that pack is big does not make it heavy. Look at the sleeping bag on top - it probably weighed over 6 pounds.
Jim
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These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#162035 - 02/12/12 01:43 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: Jimshaw]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
When I had a Jansport my base weight was 19 pounds for my summer on the PCT.


Heh, and i was sort of doing the math on what my base might have been with late 70's early 80's era gear, keeping a very lightweight mindset, and I was arriving at a number of about 20 pounds - so this pretty much confirms my suspicion. So with a reasonable food load I could have been 25 pounds for a weekender pretty easy (God knows I never was then...)

Sure, it's not my current 9-12 pound base weight. but it's also far from unmanageable - and in that old pack probably even still quite comfortable to carry... and so then I'm thinking "why the heck didn't I do that". and remembering, no money, cheap gear, cheap food. frozen mooseburger and taco mix. stubby beer bottles, hand axes, etc etc etc....







Edited by phat (02/12/12 01:46 PM)
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#162044 - 02/12/12 04:13 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: phat]
BradMT Offline
member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 151
When I did a summer-long hike on the AT in 1977 I had, at times, as much as 65lbs... average was around 40lbs. I was a tough, fit, 16 YO and never thought much about it, except I hated the heat and humidity. I'm a Westerner by birth and preference.

Still a great summer.

Getting back to the original photo, wandering daisy is CUTE with a capital C.

Absolutely great photo... looks like the NOLS garb of the 70's...



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#162051 - 02/12/12 05:59 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: BradMT]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Actually you look like someone I know, right down to the pigtails! Well - you in the picture then looks like her now.

I remember those packs. My dad and his hunting friends all had theirs... he used to haul in the cast iron griddle and a dozen eggs, among other things. Definitely not NOLS gear list.
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#162059 - 02/12/12 10:49 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: lori]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2865
Loc: California
The shirt is not denim- but the standard lightweight 60/40 (cotton/dacron) workshirt that all we hippies wore in the late 60's. You were supposed to then embroidry them with flowers, but I was always too busy climbing to get the flowers done (I do know how to emoroidry).

Phat, thanks for comment on the sleeping bag. There is a story behind that bag. Dupont had contracted with NOLS to test their new Dacron for use in sleeping bags. They were 0-degree bags designed and sewn by NOLS using Dupont's new fill material. They were very bulky then but not really that heavy. I believe about 4 pounds. My bag that I used, was may personal Frostline Kit 3-pound down bag (I am carrying it on the bottom of my pack). Over the years Dupont improved the fill so that it was less bulky. Another reason for the bulky bag was Paul Petzold. He was abouy 6 feet 4 inches weighing nearly nearly 300 pounds and his pet peeve was clothing and bags that were too small - so he overkilled and made EVERY NOLS created product HUGE. You could get two of me in that bag! I pretty much used my own personal gear because few NOLS items ever fit me. NOLS also had a contract with Woolrich. They made wool shirts for us with Neru collars that had not a bit of cotton on them. The inside of the collar was also wool. I really liked those shirts and have never seen them sold to the general public.

I agree that base weight was not that high, but I always climbed and never went out without a rope (11-mm perlon, ugh!) piton hammer, pitons. Talk about weight reduction- climbing gear has really evolved into lighter gear.

Our cook gear was group gear. Each of us only carried a cup and spoon. Each 4-person cook group carried 2 #10 tin cans to cook in and one Teflon frying pan with a lid. When I started we only used fires. Then shortly we were using stoves - the old 11R (I think that is right- the bigger version of the Optimus 8-R- that stove in the blue case).

I broke the Kelty packframe in 1973 and Kelty gave me a new one, no questions asked, that I still use today! The old pack bag is long gone, worn out. The old Kelty set up was about 6 pounds. Not light, but not too bad.

Not sure if my feet show, but those old Lional Terray boots weiged 5 pounds! Footgear is another item that is so much lighter now.

Petzoldt had a story that taught us not to get too hung up on gear. Equipment does not make the climber. He used to be a caddy and he would make lots of money betting golfers that he could beat them - allowing them to use all their clubs and he only used one - cannot remember exactly which club he used, something like a 7-iron, but he generally won.

Do not get me wrong- I love all my new light gear, but if I never had another penny to spend, I would just dig back into my old gear when my new stuff wore out and continue backpacking.

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#162061 - 02/12/12 11:00 PM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: wandering_daisy]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
While the technology has changed and given us lots of whizzbang gadgets, I think the enjoyment level has remained rather constant.

I regarded my 1962 era Kelty as rather lightweight. If I still had it, I suspect it would work just fine for carrying heavy, odd shaped loads.

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#162064 - 02/13/12 08:51 AM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: wandering_daisy]
Pete A. Offline
member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 23
Loc: Auburn, AL
Just like the days we used to backpack in deep to hunt deer - with climbing tree stands strapped to our packs!
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#162468 - 02/19/12 08:50 AM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: wandering_daisy]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Very cool shot! W_D you ARE the petite one; you make that pack look huge! Here is one from late August 1972, again, with Kelty's and another felt hat.



My sister in her felt hat (age 13) and my mom behind her; Mt Lassen.

Another from June 1971, Mt. Lassen again. This time its my setup at the time. Seems this is the only shot I can find of myself with a backpack on...




Maybe this is a better shot of the packs we used. Again, early June 1971.



We brought the whole kitchen with us when we went. Cooking was done over the fire on a grill. No pre packaged meals.



Check out my mom's sunglasses...are those back in style yet?


Edited by skcreidc (02/19/12 09:00 AM)

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#162680 - 02/24/12 12:58 AM Re: Good Old Heavy Weight Days [Re: wandering_daisy]
ndwoods Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 572
Loc: Santa Cruz CA, Sierra Hiker
Actually it was my old "heavy weight days" that I originally was striving for to reduce my pack weight! My old pack weight for a 5 day trip was 25 lbs with food and water! No tent, just a tube tent. No heavy pad, just a light ensolite pad. No stove, we cooked over a fire. No water filter, cholorine drops. etc etc etc
In the late 80's I went on a solo trip where my pack hit 40 lbs. I hated it and was thinking about that old 25 lb pack weight and have been working on it ever since. I am down to 12 lb base weight...pretty happy with that actually. I got lower, but added some things back in...:)
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