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#107074 - 12/14/08 04:13 PM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: 300winmag]
OregonMouse Offline

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6561
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I pretty much use the same clothing for hiking in winter as in summer, but I add at least one more layer of insulation, sometimes two. I'd rather have 2 or 3 thin insulation layers than one thick one so I can fine-tune my body's moisture production. That's a fancy way of saying that I want to avoid sweating when I'm moving. In winter, sweat tends to get cold or even freeze quite quickly, so it's better to avoid sweating. If it can't be avoided, at least the fewer layers that get damp, the better On the other hand, layers have to go back on in a hurry when I stop! I call this peeling off and adding back of multiple layers the "onion method." No, I didn't invent either the method or the analogy to the odoriferous vegetable!

I also have to say that most of my summer hiking is in high altitudes in the Cascades and Rockies, where it can end up snowing even in midsummer. My "summer" clothing is therefore a bit more substantial than yours.

Edited by OregonMouse (12/14/08 04:15 PM)
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

#107075 - 12/15/08 01:04 PM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: outspoken]
shaman123 Offline

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 1
btw, golite makes some great lightweight products IMHO. I just bought some for my family this weekend as they are having a 30% off sale - I got an email with code: 08HOLIDAY that worked for me.


#107076 - 12/15/08 06:23 PM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: shaman123]
JAK Offline

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
I've been looking at their "Storm Dragon" trail runner with built in gaiters.
Neat idea. I usually like to try stuff on though.

#107077 - 12/16/08 08:32 AM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: JAK]
JoeF Offline

Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 19
Maybe see if gear trade has any used? Most of the clothing is items returned to stores and I remember seeing some but don't remember the sizes.
outdoorsewing on yahoo: [url] [/url

#107078 - 12/16/08 12:05 PM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: JoeF]
OldScout Offline

Registered: 03/17/03
Posts: 501
Loc: Puget Sound, Washington
don't mean to hijack this thread but........ Hey Joe, how does grear trade work? It says that there is a 10% commission. Is that added on to the sale price so that the buyer ends up paying for it or does the seller pay for it out of the sale price?? What is your experience with them? How do you handle disputes if the goods are damaged or not as respresented?

#107079 - 12/16/08 03:02 PM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: OregonMouse]
OttoStover Offline

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 62
Loc: Norway
I agree with OregonMouse, the easiest is to have the same clothes both summer and winter. In summer here in Norway it may too get cold, so one must be prepared for that also.

Before I found Brynje useful I always used thin wool close to my body, and softshell or hardshell on top according to the actual weather. Now in winter I just use Brynje Super Thermo under and softshell over that.

In summer its just the Brynje if it is not a lot of mosquitos, it is amazingly warm and airy. In winter the Brynje is good because it has good wicking properties and when you stop there is a layer of air next to your body so you do not feel wet. For me this is essential, 'cause I sweat a lot.

On my last winter trip that I've posted pictures from, this is all I had for four of the five days.(brynje + softshell) Winds were moderate 5m/s and temp around 0C. The last day had such hard winds that it was hard to walk against it. Aprox. 15m/s (33 miles/h) and about -10C. Then I had an extra thin layer of wool and a hardshell instead of a softshell jacket.

Brynje is also wery light, thoug I have'nt put it on a scale. I like the product so much that I use it for everyday use also. So far (two years use) only one sleeve has a damage where the watch has stuck to it. Those who want light and warm underclothes should try it, at least those that sweat like me. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

#107080 - 12/16/08 05:22 PM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: OttoStover]
Jimshaw Offline

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3939
Loc: Bend, Oregon

I've used the net underwear. I hated it. I thought it was un-comfortable and it left funny marks all over. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> But to each his or her own. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The stuff is probably easy to launder and doesn't hold odors.

You do bring up a point though about those of us who live day in and day out in conditions that most people consider to be "winter camping". Obviously we wear non-camping clothing that is warm and tough and maybe more normal looking and heavier than camping gear. I wear a lot of cotton in the winter - either I'm out in cold so it doesn't get wet, or I come inside and the relative humidity is 10% and everything melts and dries out in fifteen minutes. A stroll in the streets on Duluth during the winter may be colder than a winter camping trip most places.

LLBean abd Eddie Bower provide a lot of this clothing. Then of course theres the hunting clothes, like heavy duty camping gear. I may buy a pair of redwing hunting boots as my next footwear.

However I digress. The lightest winter garments are thin nylon with down between them. (.) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

#108315 - 12/26/08 04:10 AM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: outspoken]
MrZeroPing Offline

Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 17
Loc: Ibaraki Ken, Japan
I too am in need of some help with this particular situation. I was trying on an Arcteryx Alpha SV and I was telling the shop keeper that I'm interested in doing winter mountaineering. I was with my girlfriend at the time and she said to me "I didn't know that. Take me with you." Her birthday is in January so I thought I could order her an Alpha SV jacket too. But I got to thinking. For the price of 1 jacket I could probably load her up with an entire set up. So after a couple days of reading the forums from here and other sites I think I've narrowed down what I want to get her. But I'm not sure if it is appropriate for the activities that we will be doing. So I'm asking for some suggestions.

What we plan on doing is probably some day hiking in the mountains in winter (and other seasons). Nothing major. No snow. Day trips. Would only be going out if the weather was nice. Then possibly doing some snow shoeing once we get more experience. Eventually we would like to go winter camping.

From what I've read it seems most people go with 4 layers. Is this going to be appropriate for what my girlfriend and I are aiming for?
Base Layer - Patagonia Cap 2
Insulating Layer - Patagonia R2
Wind Layer - Marmot Driclime Windshirt
Softshell - Marmot Precip Jacket

Base - Patagonia Cap 2
Insultating Layer - This is what I'm most having problems with. A lot of what I read was discussing core layering and not really leg layering. Perhaps some fleece pants? Any suggestions? Brands?
Softshell - Marmot Precip Pants

One thing the store keeper was saying was that down isn't really good to wear when you are active. "When you are active you want to be wearing something like fleece. When you stop, you put on your down." I've also read that a couple times in other forums. Any thoughts on this? Be they anecdotal or otherwise?

Also another concern I have is if the capilene 2 is going to be enough? I was thinking if I get her cap 2 we could also use it for the other seasons. But is it going to be warm enough?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and help.

Edited by MrZeroPing (12/26/08 04:14 AM)

#108331 - 12/26/08 04:43 PM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: MrZeroPing]
kbennett Offline

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 820
Loc: north carolina
The 4-layer system is good. I like my DriClime jacket over my base layer, but my lovely wife wears a Marmot Sharp Point soft shell jacket over a base layer or a microfleece zip tee in the same weather. She also really likes her Ibex soft shell pants for hiking in any weather below about 50F. Below freezing she puts on a set of lightweight wool long john bottoms underneath.

If the weather turns ugly, you'll be glad you have a rain shell and rain pants with you. The Precip is fine.

Your dealer is right -- no down clothing while hiking. Not unless you are climbing Everest or similar. That said, having a down or synthetic puffy jacket to put on when you stop for lunch is really nice -- it'll be much warmer than the fleece layer.

I'm generally warmer than my wife, so my winter layers are: (torso): wool long john top, Driclime jacket, down jacket (on breaks only), rain shell; (legs): wool long john bottoms, hiking shorts, rain shell pants, with fleece leggings to put on in camp under my rain shell pants.

Does that help?
--Ken B

#108338 - 12/26/08 06:19 PM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: kbennett]
MrZeroPing Offline

Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 17
Loc: Ibaraki Ken, Japan
That does help. But I just realized something. Most people are only ever wearing their baselayer and some other layer at the same time.

Do you or anyone else wear all your layers at once? If so how should sizing be done? For example, say I'm wearing my base layer and my windshirt. I'm hiking and hiking but I'm just not getting warm. At this point would I take the windshirt off and put something on to replace the jacket? Or would I say put on a fleece jacket underneath the windshirt?

I realize this sounds trivial but how does this apply to sizing? Do I want to buy a fleece jacket (like the R2) that fits perfectly and then buy a larger windshirt so that the windshirt can go over the fleece? Or do I purchase both windshirt and fleece so they fit perfectly?

#108340 - 12/26/08 07:44 PM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: MrZeroPing]
chuck Offline

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 83
MrZeroPing, when layering you do need to think about sizes. If you layer over down you need to make sure you do not compress the down or it will lose insulative properties, to avoid this you might need larger outer garmet if it will be worn over down. Same if wearing down jacket in sleeping bag, you need to make sure bag doesn't compress jacket.

In cold windy weather I love my Montaine 3 oz windshirt over a 100 or 200 weight fleece jacket. I did not size up on windshirt when I bought it but if I had to do again I would get 1 size bigger. Montaine's windshirt runs tight and when I pull over my head it is very tight fit getting arms through.
The windshirt can be sized up because it only protects wind and not add real warmth. This will allow it to be worn over bulky insulative layers.


#108347 - 12/26/08 11:49 PM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: chuck]
MrZeroPing Offline

Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 17
Loc: Ibaraki Ken, Japan
Thanks chuck and kbennet. Based on your advice I went with the following (in case you were curious).

Patagonia Cap 2 zip long sleeve
Patagonia R2 fleece jacket
Marmot Sharp Point
Marmot Precip

Patagonia Cap 2 pants
Marmot Power Stretch Pants
Marmot Precip Pants

Now I just hope I picked the right sizes.

#108454 - 12/29/08 03:32 PM Re: Ultralight winter clothing dilemma.... [Re: MrZeroPing]
bmisf Offline

Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 629
MrZeroPing - I think you'll still want a warm down or synthetic puffy jacket to layer over all of this for rest stops and hanging out in camp (you've not said what temperatures you expect - you might get away without this if you're going to be 0 C or above).

The MontBell down parka is a good choice, and reasonably priced in Japan - or maybe you can find a used down jacket somewhere.

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