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#105482 - 10/28/08 09:43 PM Hatchets
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
I decided to buy a Gerber Backpax. It weighs a little over a pound. I debated as to whether packing a small hatchet was a good idea, but it seems that so many times I am at a wilderness camp surrounded by firewood but nothing to cut it with. One never knows when it is going to turn cold and wet. Do any of you pack a small hatchet with you? I know many of you are of the light weight crowd and so this might make you laugh, but I just have to ask.

Howie

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#105483 - 10/28/08 11:24 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Do a search, I think there are several threads on this already. Personally, I think it's a bad idea. A small saw, like a cable saw or folding saw would be a lot better and lighter. Much less chance of cutting your leg or another body part open.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.

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#105484 - 10/28/08 11:44 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: TomD]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
Don't forget to carry a file and sharpening stone as well. Hee, hee

Eric
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#105485 - 10/29/08 06:11 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: TomD]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
I considered a saw, but where the camp sites I frequent often have a abundance of larger diameter short logs. We get a lot of dead fall on the trails and so the parks people cut them and leave the wood at the camps. I just cannot imagine spitting much with a saw. Then again maybe I need a saw in addition to my hatchet <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I never have much luck with the search function on this forum. In fact I tried it.

Howie

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#105486 - 10/29/08 06:58 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
We talked about it recently in the beginner forum under the title "machete". I think phat pretty much summed up my opinion on it, so I won't repeat his post.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#105487 - 10/29/08 07:35 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
alanwenker Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 812
I don't take a hatchet backpacking, but I do on canoe trips. I have an all metal Estwing. It weighs a ton, but does the job.

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#105488 - 10/29/08 09:44 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: alanwenker]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Well, if I ever decided to bring one, it would be the Estwing type. I have a hammer and LOVE it. Very well made.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#105489 - 10/29/08 11:10 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: finallyME]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I've always used Estwing hammers on the job. The problem with them is that they walk off the job site alot. They should last for ever but I bet I've bought 20 of em over the past 10 years. I guess some things are worth stealing??????
_________________________
Enjoy your next trip...

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#105490 - 10/29/08 02:01 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: chaz]
alanwenker Offline
member

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 812
If I were to buy a new hatchet, it would be the Gransfors Bruk (no clue if I spelled it right) hatchet. These are nearly too beautiful to use.

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#105491 - 10/29/08 03:53 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
Bearpaw Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 1732
Loc: Tennessee
In the last year, I've gone from long-distance solo trips during school breaks to lots of shorter mileage weekend trips with my wife.

I almost never build fires on solo trips, but I've found that after a 6-8 mile walk, a fire is a great way to keep her occupied. But we've had issues with finding the right kinds of wood, dry enough to work in cold weather. Last year at Hobbs Cabin at Savage Gulf Natural Area in southeastern Tennessee, I really wished I'd had some decent pioneering tools for prepping wood for the fireplace there.

So recently I made a couple of purchases for enhanced base camp life, a Sven Saw and a Gerber Camp Axe. The saw is MUCH preferable for cutting a decent length of log, while the longer (17.5 inch) Camp Axe is a reliable splitting tool.

Yeah, it's a 2 lb, 6 oz load for the two, but for those shorter trips with camp comfort in mind for the wife and me, I suspect it will be worth it.

I'll let you all know how the system works after the 3-day trip we have planned at Thanksgiving.
_________________________
http://www.trailjournals.com/BearpawAT99/

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#105492 - 10/29/08 08:00 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Bearpaw]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
Last time out I injured my back. The weather was ugly too. It was wet and cold. I sat there looking at some logs and wishing I had some kind of axe. Oh to have a nice warm fire going. That is what prompted my hatchet question. One has to be prepared for the worse. What was that Boy Scout moto?

I went ahead recently and bought the Gerber Packpax. I tried it out today and found that it splits logs to kindling like no tomorrow. It will go on my belt and it is only just over one pound in weight, so I will give it a try next year and see how it works out.

Howie

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#105493 - 10/30/08 07:10 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
I have a small hatchet I carry in winter. Weighs exactly 1 pound and has a nice wooden handle. Handle could be a little longer, but shorter might be safer for more occassional use. It doesn't get used for much as I use mostly squaw wood for my Kelly Kettle, but if I ever needed an emergency shelter and fire it would be very effective in the sort of brush we have. I also bring a few small nails rather than tent pegs and the hatchet is handy as a hammer. Again, I hardly use the nails, but they are very versatile when needed. I brink along a small sharpening stone, but not a file. My main campknife is just a cheap opinel#7, but I like it. In theory I could also use the hatchet for chopping a hole in ice for fishing or for water but I haven't done this. To be honest, I don't really think a hatchet is justified when you go solo, but for a larger group it would make sense to have one. I just like how it feels and all my other stuff is pretty light.

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#105494 - 10/30/08 08:59 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: JAK]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
When I put it on my belt and walk around I don't even notice it is there.

Howie

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#105495 - 10/30/08 11:07 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
johndavid Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 260
Loc: jersey city NJ
I recently bought a small inexpensive Sierra saw and have been extremely pleased with it.

T'is the season for campfires... An ax would be useful for splitting, while a saw is better for cutting. More dangerous to play with an ax, & heavy and potentially expensive for a nice one.

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#105496 - 10/30/08 01:51 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
Quote:
When I put it on my belt and walk around I don't even notice it is there.

Howie
I've got about 40 pounds on my belt and walk around I don't hardly notice its there either, but believe me, it is. LOL.

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#105497 - 10/30/08 02:21 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: JAK]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
My wife tells me if I add any more gadgets to my belt, my pants are going to fall down. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Howie

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#105498 - 10/30/08 03:39 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
I wasn't talking gadgets. I was talking spare tire.

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#105499 - 10/30/08 05:36 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
rootball Offline
member

Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 112
Carried one many times. I had a Fiskars hatchet. I think it weighed a pound. What a handy, handy item to have. I would chop small logs length wise down one side then flip it over and chop down the other - theen it would split. I would split it again, then stand one on end and make small chops to get kindling. It nver mattered how hard or long it had been raining - I would have a fire going in no time. I also offset the weight in a couple of ways - I used it to make stakes for my tarp, I left the fire starter (cotton balls and vaseline) at home.

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#105500 - 10/30/08 05:40 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
rootball Offline
member

Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 112
I forgot to mention - have you read 'Camping and Woodcraft' by Kephart? Wood and wood chopping have been around for a long time. This guy was an expert who used his hatchet to survive. Some good reading.

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#105501 - 10/30/08 05:43 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: JAK]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
I understood that JAK. I have one of those too. (spare tire)

Howie

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#105502 - 10/31/08 08:54 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: chaz]
Tango61 Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 931
Loc: East Texas Piney Woods
Quote:
I've always used Estwing hammers on the job. The problem with them is that they walk off the job site alot.


Spray paint them a bright, florescent pink and they don't seem to walk away quite as much. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> At least they don't go far.

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#105503 - 10/31/08 10:58 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
johndavid Offline
member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 260
Loc: jersey city NJ
I read Kephart over and over and over...and love him. And when I was a boy trapping muskrats and a teenager building a log cabin, I became somewhat handy and practiced with an ax and hatchet...and used a saw a lot also...

But assuming if you want such things at all for backpacking, which is the first item to consider....:a saw or a hatchet.?

My personal opinion, partly based on recent use of Sierra Saw.....and many years of no fire or reliance on "squaw wood"...is that a saw is clearly the first choice, based on weight-and benefit analysis.

Saws are notably more efficent for cutting firewood relative to hatchet... in my opinion.

Having both a saw and an ax, or maybe a hatchet, would be optimal for firewood cutting, if weight considerations are disregarded.
To say nothing of safety....

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#105504 - 11/01/08 06:07 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: johndavid]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
But how does one split a log with a saw?

Howie

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#105505 - 11/01/08 06:41 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Quote:
But how does one split a log with a saw?

Howie


One doesn't. One gathers wood that doesn't require splitting.

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#105506 - 11/01/08 06:59 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Quote:
I have used the clips because my left foot points to the outside from a badly set fracture when I was 12 years old.


If you really have to split wood out there, you can do it with a big knife (which I don't carry either) like a K-bar or other military knife, and another log. We're talking no bigger than 3" logs here. Personally never had to split anything when backpacking.

Hi-jack......

Howie....got me a Jerry Freeman 'blackbird' and 'mellow dog' headed this way. You played either of those? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#105507 - 11/01/08 07:19 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: Dryer]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
[Howie....got me a Jerry Freeman 'blackbird' and 'mellow dog' headed this way. You played either of those? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> [/quote]

Never had the pleasure yet Paul.

We have a lot of dead fall due to the fact that the pine beetle did a lot of damage to the Canadian parks. That is why there is frequently larger diameter logs left at the wilderness camps.

Something that makes me chuckle a little. Here we sit discussing the merit or not of carrying a hatchet. The concern being the extra weight. The parks people I meet are often small females packing chain saws. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It is their job to cut and clear the deadfall off the trails.

Howie

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#105508 - 11/01/08 10:47 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
Bearpaw Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 1732
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
But how does one split a log with a saw?

Howie


If you really want a fire in wet conditions, then you carry an axe also. You can split down into a log to get to the dry wood in the middle so you have dry kindling. Once you have solid coals, the fire can dry out the rest of the wet wood.

Nowadays, fires are not generally an essential item when backpacking. 99% of backpackers carry a stove.

But for winter hiking, a fire can be nice. Hence the saw and axe I'm looking at. I've cut enough wood to know I don't want to cut wood with a hatchet. To tiring, too likely to result in injury. Cut with a saw; split with a hatchet.
_________________________
http://www.trailjournals.com/BearpawAT99/

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#105509 - 11/01/08 01:37 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Bearpaw]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
That's a good point. Some wet places are nice places to camp, but everything is always wet, even when its sunny, like places near waterfalls that don't get much sun. There is usually some deadfall with dry wood inside if you can get to it. It often delaminates easy, but is still hard to get to without a hatchet or large blade. So if you are planning on camping some place like that and you have a hobbo stove or kelly kettle you can bring a small hatchet or large blade or think ahead and bring in some extra squaw wood before you get into the wet area.

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#105510 - 11/01/08 04:01 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Bearpaw]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Quote:
If you really want a fire in wet conditions, then you carry an axe also


If you carry a few fire starters, you don't need bother with the axe and heartwood.
I carry "fire bunnies" (put a few in "da Box" last time it came around) which are nothing more than tightly wadded paper towels dipped in melted paraffin. They burn 5+ minutes and will light wet wood just fine.
I suppose if you are staying put for a week or more and dead fall starts disappearing, a saw and axe might be essential tools, but not for backpacking.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#105511 - 11/01/08 04:21 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Dryer]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
Esbit seems to be pretty good fire starter too. The trouble as I see it. I only need a fire in emergencies such as if it is wet and cold. If it is raining, the wood is bound to be wet, I might want to be able to get the center of the wood. Some of these logs are quite large in diameter. As I said, last time I was out I would have given anything for an axe. I could have likely made do with a saw.

Maybe I should just build the fire around my butane stove <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Howie

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#105512 - 11/02/08 04:56 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Quote:

... I only need a fire in emergencies such as if it is wet and cold. If it is raining, the wood is bound to be wet, I might want to be able to get the center of the wood. Some of these logs are quite large in diameter. As I said, last time I was out I would have given anything for an axe. I could have likely made do with a saw.




Point taken. You need to be equipped for the local you hike. Nothing wrong with hauling a hatchet if that's what it takes, or an axe for that matter. The places I hike, fuel is everywhere. That's why I usually don't bother with a stove or fuel and use tiny "cook fires" instead.
Can't get away with that everywhere though.
Your butane stove would make a dandy fire starter! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#105513 - 11/02/08 07:14 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: Dryer]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
Fires are not really encouraged most times because of the extreme fire hazzard during the summer months, and so a fire for cooking would not be a viable option. However, proper fire pits are provided and sometimes a guy almost HAS to light a fire. Some years ago I was hiking late in August when the temperature dropped unexpectedly down to below freezing. It was the most miserable night I have ever spent. I was ill equipped and could feel myself getting hypothermia. In that case there was some dead fall around and that fire felt Soooooo good.

Pretty much all of my hiking is done alone and so I feel the need to be as prepared as possible for the unexpected.

Howie

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#105514 - 11/02/08 12:20 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
Dryer Offline

Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3591
Loc: Texas
Quote:
Some years ago I was hiking late in August when the temperature dropped unexpectedly down to below freezing.


Ha Ha. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Ha ha ha ha..... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes here, in late August, the temperature drops below 100F! A fire is the last thing on a persons mind.


Quote:
Pretty much all of my hiking is done alone and so I feel the need to be as prepared as possible for the unexpected.



I'll hike with you any day, bro! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#105515 - 11/02/08 12:47 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: Dryer]
Howie Offline
member

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Canora, SK, Canada
It does get quite hot here in August too, but in Manning Park there is snow on some of those mountains year round. Up about 2000 meters or so.

I would love to hike with you Paul. So long as you can keep up with an old goat like me <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Howie

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#105516 - 11/12/08 05:37 AM Re: Hatchets [Re: Howie]
bulrush Offline
member

Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 132
Loc: Michigan
The only reason you really need a hatchet is to 1) build a shelter or cabin, 2) chop wood to put into a wood stove. For an open campfire, simply drag the wood and put the end in the campfire. As it burns through, slide more of the limb into the fire. Smaller limbs can be broken by hand or in the "V" of a tree.

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#105517 - 11/12/08 06:37 PM Re: Hatchets [Re: bulrush]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
Quote:
The only reason you really need a hatchet is to 1) build a shelter or cabin, 2) chop wood to put into a wood stove. For an open campfire, simply drag the wood and put the end in the campfire. As it burns through, slide more of the limb into the fire. Smaller limbs can be broken by hand or in the "V" of a tree.
There are other times a hatchet is handy, especially in winter. Its always a good idea to carry enough dry sticks to start your next fire, but when the woods are really wet this isn't always that easy. Also in winter travel is slower, so traveling extra for water or fuel is more difficult. A 1 pound hatchet might not ever be essential, but its often handy. There are actually several uses for a hatchet. None are essential, but they add up. My last winter trip I only used it to hammer in one small nail, but I will still bring it again this winter coming.

Hatchet uses
1) hammering small nails or tent stakes
2) making and driving wooden stakes, for tarps or snares
3) chopping and splitting wood fuel, kindling, and tinder
4) making poles for emergency lean-to or debris shelters
5) slashing spruce boughs for emergency bedding, shelter
6) improvising an emergency stretcher or sled or snow shoes
7) chopping a hole in ice for water or fishing
8) you might sleep better at night if afraid of coyotes <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Not really needed, but as backup that extra pound on a winter trip might be more useful than an extra pound of shelter, sleeping bag, clothing, or food, assuming you are already well covered in those essential areas. Especially with a large group it makes sense to have one hatchet. If you might get wetter than expected and colder than expected and slower than expected a hatchet can be worth bringing along, as a time and energy saver. I don't use it much, but I don't get into emergencies every trip either, plus I just like bringing it along in winter and I still pack pretty light in total. It depends alot on the type of woods your in. It works for me.

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