I went on an overnighter last weekend to one of my favorite spots to hike. It had been stormy all week here and upon checking the weather I made the executive desicion to taske my lunar solo (and this is the old school version..were talking 2005 model here) I have not taken that out in years...not since I went to the UL world. Me with my poch sub five pond base weight, and smug attitude about it when out with friends. (which they are slowly converting to I might add) And hey I am comfortable and enjoy myself being that low on the weight spectrum. But this time I took my Lunar solo just because I wanted to have a little more coverage than a tarp. I mean I was still light because nothing else changed about my gear list, I just went form a 4 oz tarp to a 24 oz "tent"

And you know what I am glad I did. I thuroughly enjoyed myself. I had so much room, I did not have to worry about the rain pouring in when the thunder storm began. (don't get me wrong I have weathered many a rainy night under my tarp, but just have always had to do it sucked to the ground.) My gear was inside with me, and I absoutly loved wathcing the rain fall on the snow cover mountains from the protection of my vestibule. I will go so far as to say I probably even slept better. The only dissadvantage that I had or missed was I was not able to have that open out in the air feel and view, when I had everything "buttoned up" but as soon as I laid down I could see undernieth the peak and once again gained a decnt view of things

My buddy and I are going to head out on a trip for the 4th weekend and you know what I am taking it again. But this brings me to some questions. What was it about the "tent" that I enjoyed so much. In the past for me most of the time if it did not look like it was going to be bad weather that night I would not even pitch my tarp so sleeping out in the open is something I enjoy, and do as often as possible. Was it the fully enclosed walls around me? Was it the worry free/ getting wet free night I had because I was able to have a shelter that protected me on all side? Was it the sense of security the shelter gave? what was it that I liked so much about it? I mean I was litterly excited that I had the thing and was using it. Most of the time my tarp is just a matter of protection and part of my UL montra, I could take it or leave it, and am not always excited to set it up. So what about the Lunar Solo was so invigerating to use, is a question that I must further contemplate upon and possibly add back into my hiking lifestyle.

Your thoughts and comments are encouraged and wanted.

***This post is not ment to be a plug for the Lunar Solo, it could have just as easily been another other style of tarp tent and I feel that I would have had the same reaction with things ***

"Sin"? No, it isn't a sin to decide that you want something a little heavier. We are all individuals and each of us is different (hooray!). You tried the >5 lb. lifestyle and have decided you want something different. What's wrong with that? So what's your base weight now? 6 1/4 lbs. instead of 5?

IMHO, it's really nice to have that enclosed tent when the heavens let loose or the mosquitoes swarm. It's worth having a little extra weight to be comfortable!

Perhaps the real sin involved is boasting about setting a standard, rather than discovering that maybe we don't really want to live with with that standard. I suspect that we probably all need to be a little less uptight about saving a few grams of weight. I know I do!

Mouse
Mugs

Its ok. First we have to understand our problem and confess it.

Its a fact that every L and UL decision is weight based, but hopefully weather relative. Sometimes the absolute lightest item isn't reasonable for a particular trip and the sin maybe boasting having a subfive pack generic pack compatible with anything. Yer light enough, now yer also smart enough to add some weight cause you are more comfortable WITH IT.

Since we ARE human and since we have evolved from a long time living on the land, we have a lot of built in fears and prejudices, and sleeping in a hole, whether made of stretched nylon or rock, suits our furry mammalian ancestor past. Frankly even large animals see tents as boulder that smell like people inside, but they respect the flimsy nylon walls. Not to mention mosquitoes or anything, but a nice tight bugless rainproof shelter that you can sleep soundly in , right through a storm, is important to my comfort.
Jim

I look at ultralight philosophy as a means to maximize one's enjoyment of the hiking experience. It really should be all about having fun, not simply trying to trim weight for the sake of going as light as possible.

We need a few fanatics out there who do things like trim their maps and punch holes in their closed-cell pads; they've invented the techniques that we light hikers use. I'm glad for them. But that doesn't mean that we all have to follow their example to the ounce. I pack what works for me & my wife, and that means we pack a tarptent and a pair of sleeping bags instead of a tarp with a quilt.

No sin at all.

I usually like sleeping out under the stars, or under a tarp, but the last trip we took my wife and I used a Tarptent Double Rainbow. We had massive thunderstorms, and the feeling inside the tent was snug and warm and very nice.

I think there is a strong innate feeling in humans for a small confined space with walls all around. Call it a back-to-the-womb thing if you like, or maybe a cave-man thing, but it goes back to the earliest humans and it's hard-wired in our brains.

Or maybe you just enjoyed using a piece of gear you haven't used for a while, the kind of "look what I found, mom!" excitement kids have when they play with a toy they haven't used in a few months.

Most of the time now, I will carry a light tent with me; I just find them easier to use than a tarp and they keep ones gear controlled better than does a tarp. But, for a long time, I seldom used a tent for backpacking.

Whether I use a tent has depended a lot on what I am doing. When I started backpacking, right after the Second World War, all I ever used was a war surplus GI poncho with part of a second poncho to use as a ground cloth. For backpacking, this was pretty much what I used up to about ten years ago (using lighter ponchos when they came available). However, after I retired, for a variety of reasons I switched to a one person tent. I will still use a tarp on occasion, however.

For mountaineering, however, which occupied a major part of my outdoor activity from the early 50's through about 1998 I generally used a tent although even then I would use a tarp in stable weather. Since I seldom went climbing alone, the tents I (we) used were two person (three in a pinch), bomb-proof mountain tents.

I still have my old Sierra Designs Glacier tent that I purchased around 1975. It has a tunnel entrance on one end and a flap-type door on the other; a zippered hole in the floor for cooking; loops for hanging a frost liner and 3/4" aluminum A-frame poles. A friend and I weathered a two-day February storm in that tent at Illumination Saddle on Mt. Hood. I still use it on occasion but at 6.5 lb complete it is not for ultralight work.

I don't look on someone who uses a tent as a lightweight failure nor is use of a tent any kind of heresy at all. For most of the gear choices there is a continuum from heavy and, supposedly, tough to gauzy and, supposedly, fragile. Most of us have fussed with gear choices enough to find the right balance between weight and durability and comfort and convenience. For me, now, that balance includes a tent, a light one to be sure, but a tent nevertheless. Without including a bear can, my typical high mountain, 3-season base weight is a bit over thirteen pounds.

Could I go lighter? Sure I could. When I was in the Army, in a survival course, I spent ten days with nothing but what was in my pockets. I didn't have a lot of fun and seriously considered eating the course instructor. Could I go out now with, say, a 5 lb pack? Again, sure I could but I don't think that I would have too much fun.

Whenever I start to obsess about gear, I try to recall a poem titled The Mountains Call written by Walter A. Starr Jr., a pioneer climber in the Sierra, shortly before his death in the Minarets in 1933. The poem follows:

God's wilderness is calling me
To shining summits, bright and cool;
The mountain trails from snow are free,
The flashing trout are in the pool.

All winter long, the lure and spell
Of glittering lakes and towering trees,
Of rushing streams and pine-tree smell
And flowering meadows haunted me.

Of all the peace on earth there's none
Like evening in my campfires gleam,
No shrine like God's own starlit dome
Nor wine like water from my stream.

What song but sylvan solitude
Stirred softly by the snow-kissed breeze,
Or water-ouzel's sweet note tuned
To swirling stream's glad melodies?

Lure of Sierra, wild and free,
Jewels deep set in shining skies,
Defiant mountains beckon me
To glory and dream in their paradise.



I have this memorized. Any time I start putting gear ahead of why I go out, I recall the words.

Others have said it as well, but I'll reinforce it: Hike Your Own Hike. If you want a full tent, then go for it.

While I always appreciate this forum's desire to pursue "lightweight backpacking", I hope that in our efforts we haven't imposed any real guilt on those who don't think they fall into the lightweight categories on the scales. I would really be disappointed in the culture here on TLB if someone new came along and felt like they were harped on for using a 24oz tent.

The trail doesn't care how much weight we bring along.

Sinner!!! You are a sinner!!!!! You are going straight to hiker heck.

All right, I am done. HYOH. If I lived were you do, I'd probably bring a tent as well.

I think you're just discovering that the "Gearhead" symptom can apply equally well to older gear than new gear, and it isn't always being lighter that's more fun, but comfort matters too..

So, I "Sin" regularly too.. I've done an overnight trip with nothing but my silponcho on my trekking poles, although I knew the weather was going to be probably decent, and the bugs weren't going to be a problem, nevertheless with clouds threatening in the evening an evening thunderstorm I did have some rain to contend with. Now, it was cool, my packweight was light. but I really didn't sleep very well. I actually did *NOT* get wet, I had picked the site fine, pitched it all good, and managed to stay under it. Problem was every time I'd roll over, I'd wake up thinking "oh geez have I rolled out from under it.."

I haven't tried just a (small) tarp since, I've gone back to hammocking with my bigger (8x10) tarp or a small solo tent. In one way I was pretty happy that I could sleep out a rainy evening under a 5x8 tarp, but for whatever reason I couldn't stop "worrying" about it when I was sleeping, the result was kind of a fitful night. Maybe if I did it more I'd be ok. The gram weenie in me keeps wanting to try it again, but it's like I have two little guys on each shoulder one telling me how light I could make my pack, the other telling me I don't even notice the 18 pounds I do carry for a weekend and reminding me how well I sleep...

But I do also get a kick out of digging out the heavy stuff in the winter. So I recognize how you got excited for having it with you. I get excited in the first trips of the year for using alcohol stoves again, and I get excited in the winter for packing up the white gas monsters and being able to cook "gourmet" in the evening...

Change is good. different things are fun. Roll with it.

Hi
On my annual bp trip to the Sierras with M, I am thinking of leaving the 5lb tent at home this year and taking a small 6 ounce hanging bug tent and a tarp because it might shower for ten minutes at night. I just can't carry a 40 pound pack anymore.
Jim

Haha, you haven't sinned. If anything I'm far more of a "sinner" than you. I've gone light(15lbs) a few times yet I choose 95% of the time to go "heavy"(30lbs-35). I bring a tent on most of my trips though because it is rare that I walk the same trail twice at this point, so I never know if I'm going to run into swarms of mosquitoes or those lovely evening t-storms much of the time. The extra roughly 2lbs isn't going to make or break my comfort level.

Well I did it again. Went to the same spot even, but am I sure glad I had the lunar again. Because this time all the snow had melted away and the skeeters were out in full force. It was nice to take refuge in it. I got to thinking while I was out there. That it does not bother me to not have a floor, so perhaps a design that is like the lunar but is floorless would be a nice happy medium, lighter then the lunar but not so heavy compared to my tarp. Maybe something like his wild oasis. But I would like to have a mesh door of some sort to be able to look out on those stary nights or hot nights for some extra ventilation.
Maybe I will cut the floor out of my lunar, after all it is 4 years old and I did by it used. But I tell you what it looks brand new, and works great still to this day, so taking a knife to it may ne a little bit on the hard side. We will have to see what I come up with.
Thanks for all your posts and support.

You say it doesn't bother you not to have a floor. But, before you start cutting, let me ask you one thing: when you sleep under your tarp, do you use a groundcloth? If not, how do you avoid having your sleeping bag in contact with the dirt and, possibly, damp/wet ground?

I wouldn't cut out the tent floor if you're just going to replace it with a groundcloth. You won't save much, if any, weight.

No sin at all. The Lunar Solo is a great shelter, giving you the openess of a tarp with its huge front exposure, but excellent bug protection and a bathtub floor to boot.

It's the only solo shelter I will still consider as an alternative to my hammock.

Besides, this whole SUL craze is gonna blow over soon enough any way...

Hah, I wish. This is the old school one. With the velcro front and non bathtub floor. But none the less it is still a great shelter and I have weathered some heavy snow storms in it as well. Something I would not have wanted to do under a tarp.

I think what it boils down to is personal comfort and also there is no one set gear list for all ocasions. I think I am startign to realize this a bit. Given my black and white personallity and my all or nothing attitude it is hard to make adjustments in the grey. But I am learning. Thanks for all the encouragement and support.