I'm interested in purchasing a much higher quality sleeping bag that I ever have in the past. I've always used synthetic bags around the $100 range, but would like to purchase a good 800-fill down bag. The local outfitter is telling me that if I want it to last I need to buy a $60 liner to protect the bag. I'm not really interested in spending the extra cash and don't want it to take up the extra space. I don't ever see much discussion around bag liners. Is this a waste of money, or does everyone use these as a given?

I've never used one. I am generally out at least 20-30 nights a year and I use my quality bag for about half that, a quilt for the rest. Yes, the bag will get a little fusty where it is in contact with bare skin but a lot of that is surface dirt that will clean off without having to wash the bag. It helps to keep yourself clean. I have never had a bag fail because I didn't use a liner. I suspect that the liners are another consumer product around which merchants and manufacturers are trying to create a need that actually doesn't exist.

I've never used a liner, and never had a bag wear out on me (there's always a newer, neater, cooler one available long before that happens <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. When I had more time, I used the bag about 30 nights a year; nowadays, I only get out about 15 nights a year. So, if you're going to be using your bag a lot, the following may not apply to you.

The concept of a liner makes sense: having a removable layer of washable fabric between your dirty, smelly body and the bag will keep the bag cleaner (body oil won't affect the down's loft, etc.) and that will make it last longer before it needs washed.

However, I'm not convinced that a liner is the way to go to achieve that. For about the same weight (although a little more cost), you might consider carrying a set of silkweight long johns and polypropylene liner socks to use as pajamas. They might add a little warmth, they'll be more comfortable to sleep in (the people I've seen use liners always seem to get twisted up in them as they move around in their sleep), and they can be used to add a layer of warmth around camp if it gets unexpectedly chilly. They might even add enough warmth that you can go with a slightly higher-rated bag (say, 50 degree instead of 45-degree), which might save a tiny bit of weight and cost - but don't try to make too much of this advantage; buy the bag that fits the conditions you hike in, and plan on the longjohns as your "reserve" temperature booster.

If you'll always be hiking and camping in mild conditions, you might even consider just taking along a thin pair of pajamas to wear - they'd work just as well, though true bleeding-edge ultralighters might scoff at the waste of weight. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you really wanted to go low-tech, you might dispense with the liner and sleeping clothes, and simply wash yourself each evening!

I've always used a combination of a soapless sponge bath and sleeping in my hiking clothes, which I've always managed to keep reasonably clean, in warm weather. (For trips longer than two nights, I carried a second set of shorts and T-shirt, and changed the second night.) In cooler weather, I use a light pair of longjohns and liner socks, as described above.

If you’re a mover and a shaker, liners are a pain.
For me the first pain is crawling into one. It’s similar to being short-sheeted.
The next pain is it slowly strangles me in the night and stops/prevents movement.
And then the liner mysteriously rotates on you so it’s left hand opening is now on the right hand side of a left-sided bag.

I do want to keep my Western Mountaineering bag clean. That’s why I carry a clean set of night/camp clothes. Some people use long underwear; me, I use silk pajamas. I wander around in camp in style. And the pajamas make a good base layer for emergency coldness.

On hot trips (>70F at night), I don’t take a bag and just use a silk or Egyptian-cotton liner to sleep in.

-Barry

I'm no expert on bags but it occurs to me that the real thing you are worried about is the oils from your skin. These oils tend to trap dirt. A liner would keep a layer between your oily skin and the bag but so would clothes of any kind (pajamas, etc). Some people strip down to sleep and they should use a bag liner. I always sleep in my hiking clothes and I'm sure they are a bit dirty but they aren't oily and that is enough I would think.

Just my 2 cents.

I have never had a bag wear out on me from being dirty inside - frankly I've never had a bag wear out on me, and I'm out a fair bit. The typical fate of a sleeping bag with me is after 4-5 years there is something newer and cooler and I buy another one. I assume your
salesman was talking about the typical silk liner that can be slept with inside the bag. Some people love them, I don't. I basically end up with it constricted around me and just
miserable, but I toss and turn. It depends on your sleeping style. Depends if your the type (like my wife) who will get into a bed, sleep, get out in the morning and all that needs to be done to the bed is to fold the cover back and it's made. Me on the other
hand I demolish it <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I know people who love the comfort of a silk liner, but they don't
move around at night.

I have successfully washed my down bags following the directions - so getting it dirty
is also not the end of the world.

Now, there's another type of liner called a vapor barrier liner - this is an entirely different animal. This is a liner designed to contain all your moisture inside the bag, to
not let perspiration and moisture into a down bag in cold weather, because if you can imagine your nice pile of 800 fill down being warm at your body, and -20 on the outside, there will be a layer there in between where the freezing, and dew point hits, making a place inside the down bag where your perspiration and breath will freeze *inside* the down, making your down wet out. This really sucks when it's really cold. The idea of
a vbl is to keep that moisture out of the bag. Great idea, but if it sounds like you are sleeping in a ziploc bag - well, that's pretty much what it feels like to me <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You need
to very carefully regulate your temperature in a vbl so you don't sweat too much. Yuck!

Me, I use neither, because I just don't sleep well in 'em. I've never had dirt problems
in a regular bag, and in the deep of winter, I use synthetic overbags over my down bag
inside to keep the frost layer outside the down. So if you ask me the liner talk for durability is just sales talk. If you *like* the feel of a liner, and it makes you sleep well in your bag, well, it will keep your bag clean and you might like it. But otherwise I wouldn't
bother.

Here's a vote in favor of liners:

I use them with all of my bags and quilts - a silk liner in warmer weather, a thermolite liner in colder.

One look at the inside of the liners and you can see how much dirt they pick up. Also, I camp in areas with poison oak, and I'd rather have the oil from that get on the liner, which can be more easily and frequently washed, than the bag.

The liners also add a bit of extra insulation, and when using a quilt, help with drafts.

I love liners, use silk ones, but I don't specifically use them to keep my bag clean. I use them for comfort, because I don't stick to them like I do to the sleeping bag fabric. Also, in warm weather, I can use them as just a sheet, with my sleeping bag next to me in case it gets cold at night.

They probably do help to keep your bag cleaner, but I don't imagine that it would significantly shorten the life of your bag.

I have a 37 year-old duck down & feathers sleeping bag, and the cotton shell is literally rotting in places, but I still use it sometimes. It's very light and compact.

Maybe if I had used a liner, this bag would be in better condition, but I don't think so and don't care.

I had a girlfriend that liked them just for staying clean. Seemed reasonable given her priorities.

I had a woolen liner for a while that I used occassionally for warmth. It worked but was bulky and therefore only somewhat practical.

I've used VBLs some but lost interest due to slight discomfort.

I tried a silk liner for a while, but by morning I'd be so wound up in it that it took me several minutes to unwind and get out of my sleeping bag. There was also no temperature advantage with using the liner that I could detect. In other words, forget the advertising hype about a silk liner's adding 8-9* to your bag's warmth.

I use my base layer (aka long underwear) for sleeping, and it stays relatively clean (if I wear it outside the tent, I'm always wearing something else over it). I also try to wipe off my face and other exposed areas with a damp cloth (I use a Handi-Wipe) at bedtime so I'm not taking dirt, sunscreen, etc. into my sleeping bag. This keeps my sleeping bag pretty clean. And down sleeping bags, as mentioned above, can be washed.

Your salesman's pitch sounds like the same one used to sell expensive and heavy tent "footprints." Or bridges!

A liner will just add weight that cannot be used for anything else. I, like Oregon Mouse, am careful to keep my base layer clean and never sleep in my hiking clothes. I sleep in my clean spare socks. The sleeping bag will function well, even if dirty, but I personally do not like to have a stinky sleeping bag. Avoid eating when in the bag. I also wash my hands a face each night before getting in the bag.

There are several options to full-out washing a sleeping bag. 1) You can lightly scrub the outer nylon with a brush dipped in mild soap to get off dirty spots - the hood area gets dirty before the entire bag. 2) after each use turn the bag inside out and hang for a day - also an hour or so in sunshine helps (but days in sunshine will break down nylon). 3) I do not guarentee the manufacturers would approve of this - but I lightly spray the inside of my bag with Lysol "fresh air scent" deoderizer. Do not spray so close that the bag gets wet.

I use a a silk liner (JagBag...weighs slightly under 5 oz) in the summer, and just wear my extra clothing (layers for camp and sleeping) in the bag in the winter.

As others have indicated the silk liner is annoying to use. I thrash around at night when I sleep, and sometimes end up all tangled up in it. I just haven't found a better method of keeping sweat and other stuff off my bags. I don't know if this makes a difference as most others that replied don't use liners, but I sweat a lot. Especially in the summer when it it just gets down right humid here in the SE. So I don't want all that junk (sweat, dirt, etc.) getting on my sleeping bag. The liner is the lightest option I can think of as the only other option is to carry an additional set of clothes, or sleep naked after cleaning off <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> The only issue with that is a lot of the hiking I do is no where near anything other than trickling springs, and I just don't feel like giving myself a bath unless there is a nice big lake or something.

well, I wear clothing in my bag even in summer. but then again, judging by your location, your
summer ain't a lot like my summer:



The last time I was in Virginia in the summertime I think I'd take the silk liner, leave the sleeping
bag at home, and still find the liner too hot to sleep in <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Gezz Phat , it might be the angle but that hammock looks pretty high and seems like it would be difficult to get in.

If you have an Academy Sports + Outdoors near you, you can pick up a polyester liner for 9$ Might be a cheaper option to see if you like them before you spend 60$

Nah, it's the angle - combined with a low slung tarp (due to it being a bit nippy, I think it got two or three degrees below freezing) and it isn't strung that tight. Piece of cake to get into, I just to the little ballet dance standing on my butt padd so as not to step on the snow in my sleeping socks.

Yeah, on my last trip (GA portion of the AT) I did just sleep in the liner. I usually ended up with my bag opened up and slung over me like a quilt by morning though. I sleep really cold.