Howdy.

I'm beginning to think about an extended (16 day!) trip in Alabama in January. I currently have two sleeping bags and not very much money at all.

One bag is a North Face Blue Kazoo, a down bag rated to 15F, and weighing in at a fuzz over 3lbs (sans stuff sack). It's a long, and I'm decidedly not, but so far that hasn't been an issue. It packs down well and recovers nicely.

The other bag is a Coleman 0-deg synthetic mummy which I got on clearance for five bucks. It's a very warm bag, and I've actually gotten it down pretty low without wearing a hat or baselayer; I think adding those would let me get it even lower. The problem is that it weighs nearly six pounds and won't pack down like I really need it to.

I'm going to be experiencing temps that could range widely; this past January we had some daytime highs in the mid-70s with lows in the mid-to-lower 50s, but then just a day or two later it was lows in the teens or low twenties and highs in the 30s. Rain is an ever present possibility.

Ordinarily I'd take the Coleman and be done with it; I've had it down much colder than the TNF (which tends to get really cold on the backside, due to compressed down) and I'm a tiny bit worried about the down bag getting wet. Also, I've had the TNF down to upper 30s, socks, hat, baselayer, and fleece on inside, and wasn't too happy. If I'm going to use it, I'm going to have to have some insulation beneath the bag.

I can see four possibilities. One is to simply take the Coleman.

Two is that I'm going to experiment with putting my ccf pad in my hammock and see if that helps the cold butt with the Blue Kazoo. I'm not overly hopeful.

Three is that I could purchase a new, lighter (and arguably more compressable) synthetic 0-degree bag. Backcountry has a TNF Snow Leopard on sale right now for $197 with free shipping, and if the website stats are correct it's nearly two pounds lighter than my Coleman bag.

Four is an underquilt for my hammock, coupled with my Blue Kazoo bag. My only worry about that is that between the bag and the UQ, how much pack volume will that take up? If I got one, I like the Jacks R Better Greylock 3 (a torso-length UQ) for less than $200. I'd still come in a pound lighter than the Coleman bag.

So what say you? Perhaps there is another answer which I'm overlooking?

ETA: I can squeeze $200. More than that is pushing it. I'd love a Western Mountaineering bag, but I just can't spend $400-500 right now.

I'll offer a few options to play with.

You might try using a fleece bag inside your down bag. Coleman has one for about $20-$30.

You could try using a piece of bubble foil insulation under your bag. I use one and they work good for my skinny butt.

You could try using a SOL emergency blanket over your bag. I use one of those too, and it works for me as well.

On really cold nights I use a couple "Hot Hands" packets in my bag. I don't think you'd want to carry 32 of them on your trip, but if you have a few for those nights when your still cold, they're pretty sweet.

If you build a campfire where you'll be going you could always play with using a campfire tent. The one I made last year works good, even if you don't have a campfire. (Here's a thread discussing it with some photos.)

If you could squeeze by with cheapie options like these for another year you might be able to save up for the Western Mountaineering bag

Back in the days of external frame packs and not worrying about weight, I used this old military down bag.

It kept me warm to 25 below zero without a pad. It's not a suggestion, just nostalgia.

I don't have the experience that alot of people here do, but my feeling is that you could add a bag liner and maybe even a cover/bivy to your TNF bag as needed for less than $200 and you would have alot of versatility. Also since you'd have 3 pieces to work with it would help with packing. I like modular systems. Also I have seen a emergency blanket that was made like a mummy bag, that could work as "worst case" option to suppliment the TNF bag if temps did fall unexpectedly. I can't imagine hauling around the coleman bag at 6 lbs!

I'm in the same climate and a hammocker also. For me, using my ccf pad, 20-degree synthetic mummy and base layer with socks and beanie has been fairly comfy down to the upper 20's.

If you're in a hammock, your cold butt problems are not to be blamed on your bag, but on your underquilt/underinsulation.

I'd take the North face, and fix your bottom insulation problems.

Personally, I get down to around freezing and a bit below with a wide (27") blue foam pad in my hammock, and I do things "garington insulator" style - I rig my ID silponcho (a silnylon poncho) with a shockcord on the bottom under the hammock as an airgap/windblock, and I often put a couple folded up emergency space blankets (the ones that are just mylar sheets) in there.

This works well for me, and is light, but might not be enough for you. As a hammocker, you could consider buying/building a real underquilt as well, something I have so far resisted.

You bag really doesn't insulate much under you though.

Note for colder weather hammocking - I have rigged a sort of "deconstructed underquilt - by adding some sheets of wal-mart poly fill insulation from the sewing department to what I put between the tarp and the hammock bottom. I've also used a thin synthetic sleeping bag for this purpose. with both rigs I've successfully slept comfortably in my hammock down to about -15C - although realisticly if I know I'm going to be facing colder than -10 I normally go to ground and sleep on pads.

and as for down getting wet? well, keep it dry.

It doesn't need to be bone dry.. I've had bags out for weeks where
they get "damp" on the cover and are half damp a lot - they do fine.

OTOH, I have slept in a fully soaked bag, both synthetic and down - know what? they both freaking suck. You can listen to all the ivory tower types you want who preach that a synthetic bag is warm while wet "OMG you might get wet leave your down at home". They are techically correct. In my experience it makes no practical difference however


1) If your sleeping bag gets soaked, you are going to be miserable. It doesn't matter if it is down or synth.
2) Aside from fully immersing it, if you make any sort of effort to keep it dry, it's usually good enough even in awful weather. down will work, and so will synth.

I take down everywhere. I do keep my sleeping bag in a silnylon sack and garbage bag.

I concur with everything Phat said. Your problem is underside insulation. $400-500 WM bag isn't going to keep you any warmer. The reason the WM bag weighs less than your current bag is two-fold, 1) higher loft down, and 2) WM doesn't put much down on the backside of the bag... because it doesn't insulate you anyway.

Since your backside doesn't need to breath, vapor barrier type insulations work very well like the blue foam pad Phat recommended. If you want to get a quilt for under $200 for backside insulation, I would check out EnLightened Equipment.

+2 on what Phat said.

I hammock in sub zero weather with ccf pads as my bottom insulation coupled with my poncho rigged as a garlington insulator shell. Ray Garlington was a real pioneer in the cold weather hammocking arena; he doesn't get enough credit as most people like using expensive underquilts. I have to find anything lighter (or cheaper) than his system.

Hey, sorry for being a long time in replying; I was helping my fiancée move this weekend.

A million thanks to all of you who posted. Much to think about. I'll definitely try out the CCF pad first, and work from there.

I've been mulling over the problem of keeping the down bag dry, and I've decided it won't be any harder to keep it dry than the synthetic bag. Plus it packs down much smaller - about half the size.

Thanks again!

The problem with the CBS is that you loose heat through convection to the outside air. With a good down underquilt combined with down sleeping bag (which could be used as your top quilt) you should be able to stay pretty warm in your hammock without adding a large amount of weight.

You might want to also ask here: http://www.hammockforums.net/forum/