Registered: 12/22/01
Posts: 2689
Loc: Pullman, WA, USA
Originally Posted By billstephenson
.........I can only conclude that they don't like my style. I think it would be a huge leap to conclude they were mentally weaker than me. That's not even a tiny bit of the reason. They just don't like it. And it takes no "toughness" at all on my part because I love it.
I agree, Bill.
I have a friend who is a backpacking wimp and backpacking mental midget compared to me. When it comes to climbing rock, he has a friend who is a rock climbing wimp and mental midget, compared to him
As I read thru the thread I sense a lot more agreement than not. That is perhaps the result of different communication skills or styles of each folk.
For me, the focus of physical or pyschological toughness kind of dissipated after military boot camp, oh some 45+ years ago. Not because it isn't important, but because no matter how you define "it", your logic and inferences about such can't seem to be absolute.
wimpy, inexperienced guys die macho, experienced guys die girls die, boys die mental tough guys die mental midgets die etc, etc, etc.
Whenever I go into the backcountry, or lead others into the backcountry, we have a simple, fresh start with everyone on the same page. In addition to having the proper equipment, my thought is to start out with an attitude of humility, awareness, alertness, and common sense. Not pushing beyond capacity. For some, like me and you, pushing hard is part of my style. But I have that capacity to push beyond. Others do not and they are wise and mentally in tune when they realize that and respond accordingly. I respect that. But I offer this wisdon to those who push past their comfort zone, and that is accidents happen when you are tired, hungry, not properly hydrated, and/or inadequately equipped. That is just a fact. Don't matter how mental macho you are. Experienced and inexperienced alike need to exercise common sense.
Anyway, I suppose this dialogue can go on and on and most probably nowhere. Sorry if I've done just that
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" Not all those who wander are lost ! " J.R.R. Tolkien
Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
In spite of PPine's endorsement, I don't consider myself particularly tough. I am a real wuss when it comes to skiing. I really don't like crashing at any speed and my lack of skill aggravates that fear to no good end.
But I don't think that criteria, one way or another is necessarily why people survive in the wilderness; helpful, yes, but not necessarily the deciding factor. You can be a complete chicken, which means cautious and still have a great time, by your standards.
Adventure is relative; I know this from years of scuba diving. Dives that bored me to tears were for some people, the most exciting thing they have ever done and I wasn't about to tell them otherwise. There is a fine line between mentally tough and stupid and I've been on the wrong side of it more than once. Maybe mental toughness is what got me back on the right side.
One thing I know, fear of drowning is a powerful force to overcome and it is easy to panic; seen it a number of times where the person wasn't in any real danger, but the perceived danger was real enough to them. Once they realized, "hey, what's the big deal?" that made all the difference in the world. That is what experience teaches you, I think, how to separate real danger from perceived danger where there is none.
Example-I was teaching two brothers, 11 and 12. One got the hang of everything quickly, but the other was struggling with something as simple as using a snorkel. But he didn't give up, instead, he went back to his hotel and stood in the shower for about half an hour wearing his mask and snorkel until he got the hang of it. Mental toughness? Determination? Call it what you will, but the next time he showed up, he was ready to have fun, and they did, both of them. I was really impressed.
Edited by TomD (11/09/1109:00 PM)
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Don't get me started, you know how I get.
Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
FYI, TLB prides itself on civil discussions. You are free to disagree, but keep in mind the following:
PERSONAL ATTACKS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. POSTS CAN AND WILL BE DELETED IF DEEMED OUT OF LINE BY THE MODERATORS AND NO, WHINING WON'T HELP IF THAT HAPPENS. NO "WHAT ABOUT FREE SPEECH?" ARGUMENTS EITHER. WE ARE ALL GUESTS OF THE SITE OWNER, SO ACT LIKE ONE.
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Don't get me started, you know how I get.
Please tell us about your 2,000 miles of Class VI+ rivers.
There is no doubt that medical professionals are everyday heroes, as are many parents, law enforcement people etc. EMTs are my favorite bunch because they go everywhere and bring morphine.
You are a humble person. Your entry showed a lot of thought. Thank you. This topic somehow polarizes people, but has certainly generated enthusiastic responses.
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