If you come up here I'll take you on a winter trek to the Boreal Forest or the James Bay Lowlands. We'll access a location by train and spend a week walking the wilderness of Northern Ontario. Bring nothing but your personal gear. I'll have kitchen, tent, shoes, sled, and anything else we may need. Or perhaps we can get something going with someone from WinterTrekking that is from Minnesota Not this year, but next. There's an offer for you.
Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Thanks for the invite Rick. A trip on the Budd Car? Very cool. They have something like that in NZ where the train will drop you off and pick you up.
I would like to meet you and some of the other Wintertrekkers. Maybe by then I will have some traditional winter clothes. I'll start saving my pennies for the trip. I have cold weather gear, but not the kind for the really cold stuff. I've been out in -10C or maybe a bit colder, but not down to -20C.
Edited by TomD (01/10/0901:43 AM)
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Hey Tom, since following your link to the wintertrekker forum, I have been looking for a cotton anarak. Well, when I went to the local Army Surplus, they had some canvas anaraks for $9.99. It is made of the same canvas as Dickies/Carharts/etc. I would guess 10oz stuff. They even had one size that was XXL. I also picked up a wool blanket and my wife sewed me a jacket. They had wool pants from the Canadian Army for $25, and they had the army mittens with leather palms, cotton backs and guantlets, and a spot for your trigger finger for $10.
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Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
That's a real score. Let us know how they work out. The anorak that Empire Canvas sells cost about $250 or so. We've got a few surplus places around here too, so I think I should start checking them out. There are some Anoraks from the Swedish Army as well, but they are hard to find. Remember the old WWII movies showing the Finnish ski troopers fighting the Germans? That's what they were wearing.
The idea, for those who haven't visited Wintertrekking is that in really cold weather, cotton breathes better than high tech fabrics. Since it doesn't get wet,except from sweating, the adage that "cotton kills" doesn't apply. No cotton against the skin or as insulation, but as outerwear. The Wintertrekkers camp old school in subzero weather with lots of gear and in comfort, the antethesis of what this site promotes, so I feel a bit like a heretic promoting them, but they know something we don't-how to survive and thrive in the outdoors in really cold weather.
Edited by TomD (01/10/0901:39 AM)
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I grew up living 10 blocks from where most of the bob and doug episodes were filmed - most of SCTV was done in Edmonton for the first seasons. The last few moved to toronto.
Yes, 09/10. Mid February through early March are good times for winter travel. About 2hrs more daylight than now and temperatures are a little warmer in February / March (-8C/-22C) compared with December / January (-11C/-25C). The other significant difference is the potential sunshine. It increase from about 62hr in December up to 153hr in March. This is not to be confused with daylight. This is when you can actually see the sun. Moosonee, Ontario I can't believe the interest. The whole time I'm secretly searching for a hot, dry, dessert location to go for a walk.
Rick, What in the world are you doing in Mooseone? Its an Indian town isn't it? I found you on the google Earth and checked out the area. Wow that's way up there, its even smaller than "inpolars" town where the reindeer people live. How do you get there? Jump out of amail plane? Jim
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These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.
Rick, What in the world are you doing in Mooseone? Its an Indian town isn't it? I found you on the google Earth and checked out the area. Wow that's way up there, its even smaller than "inpolars" town where the reindeer people live. How do you get there? Jump out of amail plane? Jim
It's the Ontario Northland Railway - Moosonee is the northern end of it - Ontario has really cool trains in the northern bush where there are basically *no* roads (As opposed to where I'm from, Alberta, which has roads and trails thanks to oil and gas exploraiton).
Basically you can get off/on the train in the middle of the bush.
I know you've been around the block a couple o'times and you have had a chance to work on your gear a lot. I think it might be a good idea to listen to the locals, and then sprinkle salt on what they say. Wool is really in up north for traditional reasons and because it always performs the same - sort of good, not great but consistently, especially over time. You can say the same about canvas and leather.
I really think it will be more critical to avoid moisture build up in those temperatures than the Sierra temps we are accustomed to, however balance moisture accumulation with the period of time we will be out.
I'm suggesting maybe a low tech day wear and a high tech camp wear for lazing around. Your big coat will be good, and down bibs would be awesome. Feet are gonna be a problem. Worse in day boots than in camp perhaps. Also I'm sure our gloves may not be adequate and we will need 40 below sleeping bags.
I did spent one night out in -40 degrees bivouacked at the base of the Eiger in Switzerland when I was 19 and I survived it - I think - oh no - maybe I died that night...
Jim
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These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.
Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Jim, I agree with you all the way. My gear is no way near adequate for those temps. The wintertrekkers practice traditional camping. That is their style and the focus of their website. However, they do use big down parkas when "cold camping" and mostly use the old school outerwear to avoid tearing up their down gear in the bush or getting it too close to a fire. My big parka would definitely be coming on this trip-along with my insulated pants.
Boots are a big issue as you said. I haven't figured out what my choice would be for those yet. I've got time to think about it. Maybe Baffins. A -40C bag for sure. I will look around to rent one rather than buy one. The WM bag is almost a grand. I could probably get one from someone like RMI or AMH.
Big mitts or gloves, also on the menu. Plenty of time to sort all this out. Meanwhile, I am planning a short trip to Yosemite for next month. I will probably go up to Crane Flat on the other side of the Valley this time. I've emailed the rangers about where to camp already, so I have the info on that.
Edited by TomD (01/16/0902:52 AM)
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