Talk about serious thread drift.

I have gone back and read Mug's original post. I just jumped in after the Ryan Jordan bashing started, so I am catching up to what started all this

Mugs, you are just plain wrong. Are some corporations evil? Depends on your definition, but I would agree to that in some instances.

HOWEVER, your attack on REI, Jordan or anyone else you dismiss as not "pure" is nonsense. "Keep it pure" is code for "you are not worthy to enjoy what I do, so go away, stay home and don't come back." I don't buy it. Should my friends be banned from Yosemite because they shop at REI? You seem to think so. I don't. I shop there myself.

Backpacking numbers may be down, but there are lots of reasons and I would put heavy gear at the bottom of that list. Video games, TV, or limited access to parks would top my list. There are plenty of people in this country, including people right here in the LA area who have never seen the ocean or been hiking in the local forests. Why should they care about saving something they have never seen? I don't have a good answer for that one.

I learned about camping in the Boy Scouts. My parents took my sister and me car camping with our little trailer with a cartop boat for fishing. We went to Yellowstone, Yosemite, Canada, and Northern CA including around the Lake Tahoe area. Was this "pure"? Of course not, but it was a great time for me and my family.

I believe kids learn to enjoy what they get exposed to early on. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think so. Kids in Hawaii, where I lived for years, love the ocean because it is close and free. Beach access there is a right, not a privilege. Do I hate the fact that my favorite scuba diving spot got overrun with tourists? Sure, but there are other places they can never go and will never see that my friends and I could go to, and we did.

More backpackers means more people who appreciate the wilderness and want it protected, not exploited or developed. We need more backpackers and hikers, not fewer. Political decisions are based on large part on special interests who influence policy. Votes or money count-the more of each, the more influence the group can wield.

Sure, no one wants to show up at a crowded campground filled full of RV's or people who think they are at the mall and act accordingly, but how are we going to educate them to appreciate walking instead of driving through the park, if we can't at least be examples for them?

I think we should encourage people who take in interest in our sport, not try to discourage them. Take my word for it, not a lot of people want to sit in the snow eating a freeze-dried meal out of a baggie. None of my friends do, even the ones who love to hike. "What's wrong with you?" is their usual reaction when I tell them where I am going.

But, without all of those "tourons" you despise so much, I might not get the chance to do that at all, so I am willing to co-exist with them because they allow me to do what I want at little cost to me.