I like the idea of maybe using a down layers to replace my windlayers and 200wt fleece layers for extreme cold / low activity. If I did that I would use wool as my skin layer and middle layer, and I would still have a rain layer of course. I think I'm inclined to agree with Jim though, to go big or stay home. Meaning once you invest in the two lightweight shell layers to hold the down, you might as well add that extra down to make it a full 2", or at least 1.5". I'm still not sure about down pants though. I would prefer a knee length parka, but with a really light shell like the flight jackets and stuff. I don't think anyone makes them like that. Some women's coats from china come very close, but they don't have my size. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Also I haven't found a good wool mid layer for pants yet, so I'll be sticking with 200wt fleece there until I do. The 200wt fleece pants are good in snow, and my legs don't sweat as much so I can overdress my legs at times and get away with it. Also I can pull the elastic cuffs up above the knee and blouse them back down. Exposing near knee length sock to the air now and then helps dry them out I think.