CAB, You make a great point and I don't think you are overreacting. I haven't been involved in Scouting since I was a junior assistant scoutmaster with a small troop a long time ago. I wound up with that position because we had very few people with any experience at all in my area and I had been a Scout as a kid. I consider myself skilled enough to take care of myself, but would not necessarily want the responsibility for someone else's child, so I appreciate those who take that responsibility.

I am sure Scouting has evolved a lot since my day, so it is good to hear they have the kind of program you mentioned. A poster I know from another board teaches similar classes and he has experience climbing, hiking and backpacking all over the world, including Antarctica, Denali and Africa.

One thing we deal with here is that Winter means different conditions to different people here. I have winter camped in mild weather at Yosemite, but our Canadian friends are out in -30C weather, which requires a whole different approach.

There is a thread here about a rescue in the PNW last winter involving a group that met up through the Internet for what was billed as a beginner level winter camping trip. The leader was ill-prepared, the group as a whole was poorly equipped (inadequate tents and bags, and no snowshoes) and no one checked the weather so they missed the report of an incoming "storm of the century." As a result, the group was fortunate enough to be rescued after a massive SAR effort involving about a hundred people, snow machines and 2 helicopters. A dangerous and expensive effort that could have easily be avoided.

Unfortunately, judging from the posts on another board from some of that party, some of them didn't learn much from their misadventure.

I have posted here many times a quote by the famous polar explorer, Roald Amundsen:

"Adventure is just bad planning."