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#93700 - 04/07/08 10:42 AM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: Dryer]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:
If good judgement is used as to what is cut, an edge can hold up for years......especially if you don't loan out the tool. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


That is why I like my box-cutter/folding knife. It folds like a knife, but holds a razor blade. I loan it to people when they want to cut something. Normally when someone wants your knife, it is because they don't have one. And this usually means that they don't know how to use one or maintain one, or what not to cut with one. Cardboard is really hard on a blade, for example. So, if someone breaks or dulls my razor blade, I just stick a fresh one in. I also use it to cut cardboard etc. I never let my other knives that I keep sharp cut cardboard. Although I like a really sharp edge, and I know how to keep it that way, or get it that way, I still hate actually sharpening it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So, I try to keep them as sharp as possible all the time. This also translates into using scissors much more often.

Jim, you need to ditch the knife and just bring scissors. If you worry about cutting yourself, then maybe you have a tendency to it (my mom sure does). You are better off without one. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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#93701 - 04/07/08 04:03 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: finallyME]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3571
Loc: Texas
Quote:
It folds like a knife, but holds a razor blade....


Do those come in pretty colors and say "Husky" tool on the side? Flick open like a lockblade knife? If so, that's exactly what I sliced my finger with a couple weeks ago. Mine's blue. Those things are crazy sharp, especially at the really sharp point. Didn't feel a thing! They are bad, yet evil, devices of satan. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Edited by Dryer (04/07/08 04:10 PM)
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#93702 - 04/07/08 04:29 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: finallyME]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Finally me - Dryer

Those folding box cutters are extremely dangerous. You can cut your thumb off just closing it. Definitely a "professional tool" that would be best not taken camping. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> They do have a place, but unless you're used to that tool... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Dull Knife I guess is my new name as given by Bigfoot. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> In fact I can knock two pieces of obsidian together and create and edge you cowboys can only dream of. Obsidian blades are used in microtomes and eye surgery.
_________________________
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#93703 - 04/07/08 05:24 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: Jimshaw]
OregonMouse Online   content
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6401
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I also respectfully disagree. Last summer I used the blade of my knife for the following items: cutting cord, whittling a point on a long stick so I could leave my tarptent pitched yet use both my trekking poles for day hiking, whittling frizz sticks for a fire (trying to show off to my granddaughter...) and cleaning fish. All these are very difficult to do with a dull blade! My years of kitchen experiences (cooking for family of 6) also taught me that I'm far less apt to cut myself with a sharp blade. a clean cut does heal faster than a jagged one and is less apt to get infected (per my physician son-in-law).
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#93704 - 04/08/08 06:16 AM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: Dryer]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:
Quote:
It folds like a knife, but holds a razor blade....


Do those come in pretty colors and say "Husky" tool on the side? Flick open like a lockblade knife? If so, that's exactly what I sliced my finger with a couple weeks ago. Mine's blue. Those things are crazy sharp, especially at the really sharp point. Didn't feel a thing! They are bad, yet evil, devices of satan. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Yep, in fact my is a hot pink. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Don't ask. Husky isn't the only brand that makes them. I think they are all made at the same place and stamped with 20+ brand names, then sold at a large range of different prices. Jim might even have one, as they are great for wallboard, roofing shingles etc. They are crazy sharp, and you don't have to sharpen them, which is why I like them. Yes, you have to be VERY careful with them.
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#93705 - 04/08/08 06:18 AM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: Jimshaw]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:

Dull Knife I guess is my new name as given by Bigfoot. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> In fact I can knock two pieces of obsidian together and create and edge you cowboys can only dream of. Obsidian blades are used in microtomes and eye surgery.


I agree, obsidian can form a natural "super" sharp edge. I learned this as a Boy Scout in California. Flint can get darn close. Unfortunately, I do not posses the skills yet. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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#93706 - 04/08/08 08:01 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: OregonMouse]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Mouse et all,

Apparently you missed this quote"
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />_______________________________________
<snip>"Scalpel blades are not as sharp for a reason [As a microtomb - used for slicing tissue perfectly flat and thin for microscopic viewing]. The razor edge [ of a scalpel] cuts cleanly but not as cleanly as a highly polished blade (sharpened with an extra fine stone). This is a good thing if you want to reclose the cut which in most surgical cases is the goal. The roughness helps blood clotting giving it better binding sites and speeds up healing.
_____________________________________________

Scalpels ARE NOT SHARP compared to other options available to surgeons. They like the duller blade of scalpels because they heal faster than cuts made with sharper instruments.
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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#93707 - 04/08/08 08:57 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: finallyME]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
To just create an edge, Jimshaw is exactly right - just bang two rocks together, or rap your obsidian nodule with something heavy (not your head, please). Protect your eyes from flying fragments while you do this. Sort through the fragments until you find something that suits. This is how our ancestors fabricated stone tools for a couple of hundred thousand years or so until more advanced techniques were developed.

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#93708 - 04/09/08 09:15 AM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: Jimshaw]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
How fast a wound may or may not heal is not a consideration for me. I carry a knife for cutting stuff, so I the edge I choose is the one that cuts best.

Nor do I worry about cutting myself. The risk is so low I don't worry about it.

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#93709 - 04/09/08 11:28 AM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: oldranger]
Wolfeye Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 413
Loc: Seattle, WA
Quote:
This is how our ancestors fabricated stone tools for a couple of hundred thousand years or so until more advanced techniques were developed.


A few generations ago my tribe also used mussel shells for general cutting, and beaver teeth for wood carving. They didn't hold the same edge as stone but they were easier to make & sharpen.

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#93710 - 04/10/08 06:49 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: Wolfeye]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Yes indeed. I hav seen a handy mussel shell did a very nice job on filament tape...

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#93711 - 04/15/08 03:16 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: Paddy_Crow]
NiytOwl Offline
member

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 501
Loc: California
Isn't this a quandary? Sharp or not? I sat down and thought about all the times I've cut myself with a knife (counting the scars). It appears I've done myself with a knife 15 times that I recall. Of those, all were preventable except 3 (major splinter self-removal surgery) which required a very sharp knife. 7 could have been avoided with or were mitigated by a dull knife. Of those 7, 4 were preventable with smarter knife use (all involved holding something in one hand and cutting through with the other - right into the palm or fingers) and two were from testing the edge of an extremely sharp knife with a thumb (surprise! Your buddy actually learned how to put an edge on his blade!). The last was where I sat on an open lock blade that my buddy had stuck in a log. It just barely got me through my jeans and took no stitches. I didn't get cut worse because it was dull (he must be related to you, Jim <grin>). The remaining 5 incidents involve cooking, and I'm happier with the 2 times the knives were sharp because they all healed within a week with very little scarring. I still believe the 3 dull knife incidents would not have happened if the knife were sharp. They all involved trying to force a knife - cutting onions, potatoes and carrots comes to mind for two - and having the blade skitter off into my hand.

All that said, there are probably an equal if not superior number of times that I was NOT cut because the knife was not sharp. I'm not saying the knife was dull, but it just wasn't that hair-splitting sharpness I like on my Leatherman or Buck. When I cut food, sometimes I nick the nails of the hand I hold the food with. Those small nicks might have gone through with a sharper knife. But then I seem to do that much more frequently when I'm using other people's knives. Maybe it's because I concentrate harder on the task when I'm using my knives which I know are not very forgiving.

That reminds me of the hand ax, which has an edge that can easily slice newsprint. My buddy decided to split wood, and almost took off a finger because he's not used to a sharp ax. A really sharp edge will split wood with very little effort, but he took a whack at it and the head ran down the split into his finger. Since then, I don't lend my ax without reading the riot act about how sharp it is.

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#93712 - 04/15/08 04:33 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: Jimshaw]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I use gerber knives and a multitool. and keep them sharp, but not so sharp that you can shave with them. A super sharp knife will dull and it's hard to maintain that edge in the field unless you keep a stone of some kind with you. I wouldn't waste a sharp edge on a rock. It will dull fast enough with normal use. I sharpen my blades with a Smith diamond sharpener on the course side only. To test the edge I drag it across my thumb nail. If I feel a consistant drag I know it's sharp enough. It will cut paper with ease. To get cut with a dull knife is bad and the cut more painfull. The cut of a sharp knife will usually be deeper but will create less scaring. I got a finger cought in a bandsaw mishap and it turned a small area into what looked like hamburger meat and would have been hard to stitch. In closing, use a sharp knife to get the job done easier and be aware of what you are doing with it.
Never stab fruit while holding it the palm of your hand. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#93713 - 04/15/08 04:41 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: finallyME]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
It is possible to sharpen serated edges. Use a round diamond file that fits the seration. You can also sharpen the serated edge on the smooth side of the knife. It's the wrong side but it works. Use the knife, sharpen the knife when the blade is spent (worn out) and served it usfull life. Get a new one.

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#93714 - 04/16/08 07:07 AM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: chaz]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:
It is possible to sharpen serated edges.


I know you can, but why? Excluding bread, a sharp straight edge is just as effective as a serrated one. Plus a straight edge is easier to sharpen. I don't like actually sharpening. The less time I spend sharpening, the better. I also don't want to buy a new knife every time it goes dull. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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#93715 - 04/16/08 08:40 AM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: finallyME]
phat Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 4107
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Quote:
[ The less time I spend sharpening, the better. I also don't want to buy a new knife every time it goes dull. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


But you could.. and we could just drop our Dull knives into an Earthling box destined for Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)
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#93716 - 04/16/08 09:48 AM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: phat]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:
Quote:
[ The less time I spend sharpening, the better. I also don't want to buy a new knife every time it goes dull. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


But you could.. and we could just drop our Dull knives into an Earthling box destined for Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)


Well, if you put if THAT way. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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#93717 - 04/16/08 03:11 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: Jimshaw]
trae Offline
newbie

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 3
Loc: Finland
I keep my blades sharp, but it's not about safety, really; it must have been 5+ years since I've cut myself the last time, so that's a non-issue. A knife is simply more useful when it's sharp; sharpness, in fact, is what makes knife a knife in the first place (note that sharpness and sharpening angle are two different things).

Usually I carry my Victorinox with me, it has pretty much everything I (might) need: knife, saw, tweezers, can-opener and a few screwdrivers, toothpick and a spike/drill/nail for general MacGyverisms. It's also a survival tool I keep in my pocket along with a few selected items instead of in my pack with other stuff.

When I know I'll need to work with wood, I usually bring a proper knife like my Roselli Carpenter Knife (the best general-purpose puukko I've ever used) or Sissipuukko (if I really need to cut down some trees <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />).

By the way, what do people actually use scissors for? The only time I ever miss them is when I need to cut my nails, and that can be done with a sharp knife, too - though it can be a bit difficult with broken nails at times. But things like cutting cord or opening a bag of freeze-dried food is, in my opinion, quicker and easier with a knife. No, I'm not trying to say knifes are better than scissors, I'm just wondering if others are using their scissors for things I haven't thought of.

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#93718 - 04/16/08 04:57 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: phat]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
phat
I already have a large collection of dull knifes <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I have about 6 stones including a nice 3 stone job that was a christmas present years ago. Never use it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I'm trying to grappel with with the variety of input to this thread. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />There seems to be people who just like really sharp knifes and they get something from carrying them - maybe size does matter. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Scissors will do almost any cutting job that a knife will - only in a much safer manner, which is why I see a distintive male/female line going here - women prefer scissors unless they need a sharp knife - men like sharp knifes. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I am a licensed contractor and a locksmith. I use chisels, sawzall, table saw, chain saw, razor knifes, drill bits, drills, etc etc to cut things with - wood and metal. All of these tools are extremely sharp and extremely dangerous unless used with caution and I had to learn to use this stuff and not get cut. I did get once or twice larning <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Oh and Ill bet my blade is bigger than yours. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The point is - I could carry a razor knife camping, or a samari sword and I wold never get cut, or an axe, BUT it took me a while and I shed some blood learning those skills.

I carry dull knifes because they can do the job, and I have a lot sharper tools at home. I NEVER cut myself, and I know that I cant get too badly cut with my 45 year old Boy scout knife cause I haven't sharpened it since I was a boy scout and cut myself badly - which is why I dragged the razor edge over a rock. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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#93719 - 04/17/08 08:16 AM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: trae]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Quote:

By the way, what do people actually use scissors for? The only time I ever miss them is when I need to cut my nails, and that can be done with a sharp knife, too - though it can be a bit difficult with broken nails at times. But things like cutting cord or opening a bag of freeze-dried food is, in my opinion, quicker and easier with a knife. No, I'm not trying to say knifes are better than scissors, I'm just wondering if others are using their scissors for things I haven't thought of.


If anyone doesn't like my story, then you can thank trae for bringing it up. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I started using scissors in Iraq. I found a pair of those medical ones in the trash that someone was throwing away. I figured that if they cut pennies, they must be good. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> When going out on missions (I was a heavy truck driver, so all I did was drive all over the country in the biggest truck the Army has) I carried three cutting tools; a Victornox multi tool (like Less Shroud <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), a K-bar sized fixed blade, and these scissors. To help you understand my philosophy, let me remind you that I HATE sharpening knifes, but I like a really sharp edge. The blade on the Victornox was always very sharp, and to keep it that way, I only used it if it was the only choice. I wanted my big knife to always be sharp for stabbing (sorry, I was in a war zone), so I tried not to use it either. Remember, anytime you cut paper, plastic, anything, your blade is slightly dulled. It doesn't take long cutting cardboard to dull a knife. I ended up using my scissors almost exclusively. They cut open my MREs (I ate a lot more than I ever wanted <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), they cut boxes, they cut cord, they cut string etc. I still have them, and they still cut all kinds of stuff, and I have never sharpened them. In fact, everything they cut, they cut better, faster, and cleaner than a sharp knife would have. When you are holding a hot MRE and are trying to cut it open, scissors cut it with more control (less chance of spilling it on your lap while you are riding in a bumpy truck), without the danger of cutting your hand open <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> . Oh, and luckily I only used my big knife to chop ice. We would buy a big block from people on the street and break it up in our ice chest with our drinks <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

If you think of all the things you cut while bping, 90% can be done with scissors. In my opinion, scissors are primary and a knife is backup. But that is only me. To go with Jim's last post, I try to carry the biggest scissors so that mine is bigger than everyone else's. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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#93720 - 04/17/08 03:42 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: finallyME]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Finallyme

Hey great story. I hope it makes people think about alternatives - of course you alread had a Kabar so... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Anyway I never thought of those medical scissors as camp gear. What do they weigh? I guess you can get em with plastic body and autclavable? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#93721 - 04/24/08 03:56 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: finallyME]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Why? So it's sharp. A dull serated knife will cut through stout rope when a dull strait knife will not.

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#93722 - 04/24/08 04:08 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: phat]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
I have a collection of dull knives that are in my gear archives. A dull knife is about as useless as teets on a boar hog. (a saying I've heard alot living in the south)
I make sure my little Gerber frame knife is sharp after each use. I usually punish a knife by using it for more than it's intended use like cutting metal, prying stuff apart etc. When it breaks, which I've done several times, I'll get another. I was using my Gerber multi tool once to bore a hole in a heavy rubbermaid plastic product and snaped the blade at the thumb hole. I sent it to Gerber and they replaced the blade and put it in a new sheath. No Charge. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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#93723 - 04/24/08 04:12 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: Jimshaw]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
To each his own. I'm also a contractor and the sharper tools do make for clean cuts especially trim cuts. Sissors are great for many things.

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#93724 - 05/01/08 10:13 PM Re: How sharp is that knife? [Re: Jimshaw]
judach Offline
member

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 63
Loc: California, USA
don't cut yourself...

I guess it's preference, but a dull knife requires a lot more pressure to cut things. Even things like cutting tent string or preparing a fish (etc..) is safer using a sharp knife. the theory is, the sharper the knife, the less pressure you have to exert to cut something, thus, if you miss and end up cutting yourself, the cut won't be that bad because you weren't pressing that hard to begin with. I have only cut myself ONCE using a knife and it was a dull blade filleting a fish. The knife wouldn't easily run through the fish (because it was dull) so I had to use more pressure and move the knife around to get it to cut. Not only did I make a mess of my fish, but I slipped and cut my thumb. Thankfully it wasn't that bad, but if I was using a sharp knife, it wouldn't have happened. That's just my experience, I'm sure everyone has a bit different one.

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