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#86556 - 02/11/08 05:11 AM Re: death or death [Re: Ecrow]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
I've had to draw a gun once in my life, but it was a human encounter and not a bear encounter. Fortunately the other individual came to his senses and vacated.

Disclaimer: I did not brandish. In fact, the other individual did not know I was holding a loaded weapon.

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#86557 - 02/11/08 07:03 AM Re: death or death [Re: Paddy_Crow]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
Why are Black Bears are more dangerous out West, and particularly docile in places like New Brunswick? It seems to be a continuum. They are more dangerous in Ontario than New Brunswick and Maine, but more dangerous still as you go further west. There must be many reasons.

In general, they seem to be more dangerous in regions where there are other dangerous predators, such as wolves and grizzlies and cougars. I think it also has to do with how hostile the environment is to man, not just recently but over the past 1000 years or so. In regions where black bears have been hunted in their dens for food, especially where less aggressive females have been left alone, it would seem that some quasi-domestication has taken place over perhaps several hundred years or more. The bears in the northeast were a particularly important source of food in winter, perhaps especially so in the more distant past, because they are so high in fat compared to alternatives, and perhaps easier to hunt in their dens in the winter than inplaces further south or more mountainous. Of course there is a strong correlation between bears being more easily hunted and other predators being suppressed also. But if you compare New Brunswick to the Southern Appalachians, they might be less dangerous up here because they were a more important source of winter food, and fur. Not sure.

In Quebec and Ontario they were always hunted in much the same way, but I think as you go farther north the human population and impact was historically less significant compared to the bears and wolves, so the wilds were less tame. Perhaps a significant factor in Maine and the Maritimes was that trade with the south was easier, and the sea also provided a more significant source of food, mostly in summer, so the area supported a high human population compared to the bears, and so the bears were more impacted by selective hunting, and the eastern wolves and eastern cougars could be more effectively out competed by man, especially with the Gulf of St. Lawrence provided a barrier to migration, though never 100%.

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#86558 - 02/11/08 09:24 AM Re: bears - NOT Again! [Re: DTape]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Quote:
Not a gun hater here but even in your examples it doesn't appear being armed provided the necessary security for some.

For me, it isn't an issue of whether to bring a gun, pepper spray etc... The most important piece of equipment one can bring in their brain. Knowledge is indispensable to avoid an encounter to begin with and also to "escape" before an encounter escalates.

Hey Brum, I like your posts. Maybe someday we will meet on the trail. Happy hiking.


Yes, I very much agree, using your brain is your best mode of protection, stop, think and then take action. I'm in no way trying to make light of your advice, often, though, my legs take action before my brain kicks into gear, so I'm mostly thinking while in a full lope escape mode. When under duress, out of the "fight or flight" options, I tend to use the flight choice first.

Then when looking over my shoulder while heading away from the cause of my duress, I begin to formulate other choices, such as... if that sucker gets any closer I'm gonna try to calm myself enough to shoot him in his snout, so his newly unhinged jaw won't work as well to chew on my butt.... It's also at that point that my brain, having ceased to have any further effect on getting my legs to move faster, says.... "hand... reach for your gun!" Then my stomach says, "Now, Rectum, things are messy enough as they are, give Brumfield just another minute or so to work this out before you get involved ." <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Not a coward, but even a covey of quail taking off without warning will give me a start if they're too close to the trail. I usually only skitter off a few feet when that happens. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the compliment, I'll be heading back to the states this fall to hike some of my favorite old trails and to see some new friends I've met on here. Probably see you then. Brum
_________________________



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#86559 - 02/11/08 07:00 PM Re: bears - NOT Again! [Re: Brumfield]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
This is certainly a very sobering list, and I think you definitely make your point that bears are potentially dangerous, and not some cute, warm, disneyesque creation. Still, over the span of time represented by your list, many more in the outdoors have died from falls, drowning, hypo/hyperthermia, or unfortunate use of recreational drugs. I don't have exact figures at hand, but I understand the honeybee kills about fifty people a year in the US. For some reason, we don't have extensive threads about measures to take against rampaging, berserk honeybees.

I heartily recommend "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" by Stephen Herrero. The greater part of the book are a series of indepth analyses of bear attacks. The author presents a series of recommendations to avoid bear attacks - principally, keep a clean camp. I find this to be a solid, objective piece of research and I recommend it highly.

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#86560 - 02/12/08 08:22 PM Re: Guns? [Re: finallyME]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Quote:
Yeah, people don't pay attention when they drive their cars. The simple act of paying attention to your surroundings would solve a lot of problems, not just in hiking.
The term for that is "Situational Awareness." Get too focussed ("I gotta get to camp before 5"), or go to a soft focus (i.e. daydream), you lose situational awareness. That's when the proverbial gorilla stops you in your tracks.

MNS

P.S. I'm eyeball deep in advanced ICS training this week... if you know what that is then you understand the gorilla <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Edited by midnightsun03 (02/12/08 08:23 PM)
_________________________
YMMV. Viewer discretion is advised.

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#86561 - 02/13/08 12:38 PM Re: Guns? [Re: midnightsun03]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
I think this thread should be bookmarked or put into the Beginner's Forum to keep this thread from being discussed ad nauseum in the future <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#86562 - 02/13/08 01:25 PM Re: bears - NOT Again! (DBB) Dead By Bear [Re: oldranger]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
OldRanger wrote;
Quote:

I heartily recommend "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" by Stephen Herrero.


Hey, Thanks for the book title. Another excellent source of bear info would be the National Geographic specials, The Grizzly Man, which is about the late Timothy Treadwel. And also NatGeo's special Hunter Hunted: Death Of The Bear Man which is about Vitaly Nikolaenko, who before his DBB (my newly coined abbreviation for "Death by Bear") had been observing brown bears in Russiaís Kamchatka region for 30 years.

What you'll find when you view these excellent documentaries is that both victims went way beyond respecting the bears acceptable comfort zone as related to space, distance, and just plain aggravation limit, and also that they (the victims) were unarmed.. The bear was armed, he brought teeth and claws with him every time he went out hiking.. we should be so smart. Well, Nikolaenko did have a two pound container of pepper spray in his hand when he became DBB.

Yes, I'm way ahead of you.. I know that Comrade Vitaly went on aggravating bears for 30 years without being killed, but the point is, he is NOW DBB, versus not NOW being DBB. I believe both DBB victims would have had a better chance with a G word in their posession. Preferably a .45 caliber Glock G word.

Oh yeah, not sure if this is true, but I heard the US Army is considering exchanging all of the troop's guns for pepper spray. To avoid the enemy from coming into camp, our young troops will only need to keep their barracks and outposts in the middle east clean of all Halal certified foods, and set up bivouac only in a "legal" (guaranteed that the bear, sorry.. Enemy, knows it's off bounds for him) government designated areas. I'm having trouble seeing the logic in that, but maybe I should just fall in line, and practice flat lining and praying toward Mecca five times daily, for if the election swings toward a certain choice, it is surely coming anyway? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Brum

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#86563 - 02/13/08 01:40 PM Re: bears - NOT Again! (DBB) Dead By Bear [Re: Brumfield]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Brum, now stop hacking into my avatar and posting my thoughts <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#86564 - 02/13/08 01:54 PM Re: let's try a native's perspective [Re: Wolfeye]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Quote:
Part of what shaped my attitude about bears was the native folklore I heard when I was young:


Hi Wolfeye, my grandmother was Chiricahua Apache and my brother and I used to love to sit at her feet and listen to her stories of our Indian heritage. One story that I still like to hear over and over, but my brother is not very fond of, is how children would be named by the father. As the tradition goes, the father would sit outside the tepee while the mid wife delivered the baby. With the first squalls of the newly born baby, the father would look out across the land, and trusting that the Great Mountain Spirit would send a sign of the child's Earth Name, would name the baby after the very first thing he saw. My dad saw a huckleberry bush in full fruit and named me Berry, my name has changed to Barry with time. I like the tradition and have kept my Earth Name all these years. However, my brother, Two Bears Humping, changed his Earth Name to Rocky years ago. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Brum
_________________________



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#86565 - 02/13/08 02:29 PM Re: let's try a native's perspective [Re: Brumfield]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Brum,

I've noticed a few of your posts laced with political and religious comments. If you wish to discuss those topics, perhaps a thread could be started in the off topic forum. But my feeling is that it should be left out of the discussion forums.

And that's all I have to say about that...

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#86566 - 02/14/08 01:13 PM Re: Religion and Politics on this forum [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Quote:
Brum,

I've noticed a few of your posts laced with political and religious comments. If you wish to discuss those topics, perhaps a thread could be started in the off topic forum. But my feeling is that it should be left out of the discussion forums.

And that's all I have to say about that...

______________________________________________
Brumfield wrote:

Well, since you brought the subject up here, I'll reply to you here.

Paddy, please know that I am sorry that my two previous comments over the last eight weeks (relative to the postís subject matter) on my faith in God, or my one brief one-line-view on world politics offended you. Also please recall that my remarks were to others as part in context of an ongoing discussion between them and myself, and were not directed at you, or alluding to you, nor was I intimating any sort of reference toward you.

Religion and politics are a part of my life. Every step I take on the trail or at home is directly affected by world politics. I don't shy away from discussing politics or religion because I know the majority of the people on this planet are in some way deeply involved in the betterment of their world through politics and religion.

I try to be limited in my discussion of religion on public (non relative) forums, since from experience, I've found that many people don't want to discuss religion due to their lack of a specific belief in God, and thus have no fact based input to offer. I have also known (but cannot empathize with) many that make a conscious choice to avoid considering eternity looming at their door because it frightens them. Discussion or comments regarding religion as applied to belief in God, which I assume is the content of my remarks that makes you uncomfortable, as you know, causes us all to question (as we certainly should) our own unavoidable future beyond this realm of existence. Some would rather ignore the inevitable and pretend it's not coming, while aided by suggesting, and in some cases, demanding, that the rest of us do the same by remaining silent. Those demanding silence regarding all of our eternal destinies fail to consider that they offend the informed among us to the greater degree by dictating their own beliefs, or in most cases, lack of any belief.

Now, to the issue of my remarks about "religion"on this backpacking forum website... Backpacking is the mode of transport I most often use to distribute Bibles to people here in Mexico. My faith in God and the eternal forgiveness of our punishment-due-sins offered through His Son, is not a form of ďreligionĒ to me. It is a state of being. Itís as tangible to me as my love for my family. I am guided by it, am strengthened by it, and I try to live according to its God given rules of behavior. My faith is as much a part of my day-to-day life as your work, favorite TV programs, or hobbies are to you. I can't very well speak of my life here in Mexico without mentioning the causal agency which empowers me to drag myself out of bed one more day, strap on a 70 pound backpack loaded with bibles, and head for the mountain villages. I mention my faith or relationship with God only in the context of my life, and on this backpacking forum only in the context of my life relative to subject matter at hand, or when the subject is broached by others, just as I often mention my wife and children. There is no offense intended, it is just the convention of conversation.

You may notice that I seem lighthearted in many of my posts, so much so, that I may sometimes place myself at risk of seeming foolish, and perhaps even shallow in my approach to life. Nothing could be further from the truth. The lighthearted view of life that I espouse is fueled from the sheer joy that I receive in knowing why I exist, what my and all of my fellow mankindís purpose in life is, and most importantly, where and how, I, and the rest of us, will spend the greater part of our eternal existence. My joy is not to be confused with happiness. Iíve had my share of happiness in my life, all gained from materialism, wealth, travels, associations, adventure, and the like. The True Joy that causes me to joke and carry on in this forum is a part of my joyful countenance being directly expressed through my writing. If you could see me sitting here grinning as I write, you probably would better understand that I absolutely mean no harm or offense in my remarks.

Again, I'll say that I'm sorry that you are offended by my writings, but understand, I'm in no way apologizing for my faith, for I am NOT ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. Brum

PS: Here's something I've written that should be of interest to you, then again, perhaps not: http://IsraelsMessiah.com/religions/christianity/who_is_Jesus.htm
_________________________



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#86567 - 02/14/08 03:41 PM Re: Religion and Politics on this forum [Re: Brumfield]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
I was not offended. I probably shouldn't have said anything, it's just that when politics and religion enters a discussion things get way off topic in a hurry and then they can get heated.

It was just a caution, that's all.

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#86568 - 02/14/08 05:00 PM Re: Religion and Politics on this forum [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3571
Loc: Texas
Paddy, this forum, amazingly, sets itself apart from other boards in it's civility. I quit an astronomy board once because a Creation/Evolution argument started and probably continues to this day, bad language, threats, and everything. Folks have, including me, held out out their particular life and political leanings on this forum in the confidence that the maturity of our members draws it's own line. Rarely does a discussion get out of hand here, but yes, your concern is valid and I appreciate your warning. I personally enjoy learning of other folks slant on life, as it helps me know them better, relate to their stories, and increases the 'friendship' attribute this board proudly holds. As long as we all don't beat each other up, all is fine. Beater-uppers get pounced on pretty quick here. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#86569 - 02/14/08 05:26 PM Re: Religion and Politics on this forum [Re: Brumfield]
aimless Online   content
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2862
Loc: Portland, OR
Brum,

Your beliefs, however much they animate you, give you joy, or teach you about the world and others, should probably be regarded as off-topic, except insofar as they pertain directly to backpacking.

Each forum at TLB has a topic. It is only respectful of the wishes of those who provide and maintain the forum to stay on topic when posting in these on-topic forums.

There is also an off-topic forum on TLB, where you should feel free - more than free - to introduce whatever whatever parts of your faith you wish to share, provided it is done in a responsible and respectful manner toward other forum participants. They, too, need to follow this path toward you.

I think you should be able to agree that everything I wrote above is sensible and not difficult to honor. It is not much to ask, really.

Thanks.

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#86570 - 02/14/08 07:04 PM Re: Religion and Politics on this forum [Re: aimless]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Quote:
Brum,

Your beliefs, however much they animate you, give you joy, or teach you about the world and others, should probably be regarded as off-topic, except insofar as they pertain directly to backpacking.

Each forum at TLB has a topic. It is only respectful of the wishes of those who provide and maintain the forum to stay on topic when posting in these on-topic forums.

There is also an off-topic forum on TLB, where you should feel free - more than free - to introduce whatever whatever parts of your faith you wish to share, provided it is done in a responsible and respectful manner toward other forum participants. They, too, need to follow this path toward you.

I think you should be able to agree that everything I wrote above is sensible and not difficult to honor. It is not much to ask, really.

Thanks.



I totally agree, If I decide to preach, I'll go to the off topic, but I don't think I'll be doing that on here. I reach roughly 120,000 new viewers from around the world on my six religion related websites, per month. I have my audience. But, I will not cow tow to anyone that tries to dictate to me when and where I can give glory to God in my conversation. Anyone that wishes to demand that of me or anyone else should move to China. Brum
_________________________



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#86571 - 02/14/08 07:23 PM Re: bears - NOT Again! (DBB) Dead By Bear [Re: Brumfield]
kevonionia Offline
member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 1322
Loc: Dallas, TX
Mr. Brumfeld:

But here's the problem:

Quote:
both victims went way beyond respecting the bears acceptable comfort zone as related to space, distance, and just plain aggravation limit, and also that they (the victims) were unarmed..

and then:

Quote:
I believe both DBB victims would have had a better chance with a G word in their posession. Preferably a .45 caliber Glock G word.


And of course, as far as those bears were concerned, those bears living their lives in their habitat trying to survive, it would have been best if those two, Timothy & Vitaly, had taken those .45 caliber Glocks, pointed them at their own temples, and squeezed the triggers.

In both instances, the deaths of those two would have been assured, and quite thankfully, by their own hand.

AND it would have saved those bears A LOT of aggravation, since both T & V were going to end up dead anyway. Then they (T & V) might have provided a meal to weasles, ravens and wolverines if they had taken their own lives (that they arguably did anyway) rather than provoking a larger wild animal in it's supposedly "protected" habitat from doing it for them. (That poor old bear in Treadwell's case was killed for doing TT's job for him, along with a couple of the innocent "usual suspects," if I'm not mistaken.)

The worst thing we can do is have a guy with a comb, a mirror, 10 takes on the video recorder, getting that close-up shot of HIM AND THE BEAR before he "defends" himself with several shots to the head of that agitated bear before he returns to civilization, fame and $$ with the all important video card in his hand, shedding crocodile tears (forgive me Hillary, others can have them, too) over having to, with remorse, terminate that incredible wild animal's life all in the name of getting on You-Tube, then getting an agent, a reality show -- the sky's the limit here.

It's a gray area. Where does adventure -- bushwacking, backcountry experiences -- end, and wildlife harassment begin? Yes, if you are in Alaska or the Yukon territories, being armed is essential. But don't think it's a given for every hair-brained, bear-harassing lame idea of "unique backcountry adventure." Being a well-armed Timothy Treadwell is the scariest thing I can think of -- and absolutely contradictory to what I believe is a wilderness adventurer.

Once again, I have to state: Perusing the multitude of gun forums on the Internet, I have seldom come across a single topic titled:

My hike in the wilderness, enjoying a quiet stream, a tranquil, peaceful day in the outback, with my gun.

Why is that?

No, seldom seen. Instead, we end up with countless posts on this hiking form on the most esoteric BS on the lightest weapon we can use to shoot (in self-defense, mind you) the animals we all went out in the wilderness to see in the first place.

Gosh, I guess I've made my position known.

You gotta realize that a lot of us lurking around this recurring "hiking while heavily armed -- 'by the way, you got hollowpoints in that thing'?" topic do not believe in taking guns into the wilderness, including the areas where you can LEGALLY take them. We'll take our chances and enjoy the wildlife, and if we harass it and it eats us, well, "jeez, maybe we had it coming."

And use non-lethal bear spray when necessary to defend ourselves, at least in the lower 48.
_________________________
- kevon

(avatar: raptor, Lake Dillon)


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#86572 - 02/14/08 08:43 PM Re: bears - NOT Again! (DBB) Dead By Bear [Re: kevonionia]
midnightsun03 Offline
member

Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 2936
Loc: Alaska
Quote:
Yes, if you are in Alaska or the Yukon territories, being armed is essential.
I don't think a gun is essential in Alaska. Actually, bears here have so much space and ample food supplies (at least the blackies and browns) most years that they have no reason to be aggressive toward the occassional human interloper, so long as the human practices situational awareness and doesn't get between a sow and her cubs. Do bears attack? Sometimes - most often runners who may be mistaken initially as prey, or who unknowingly get between a sow and cubs while running. There are a few maulings in AK every year, but fatalities are very rare. Generally speaking, bears here have plenty of room to disappear before their presence is even known. The primary time I would worry about bears in AK would be while hunting or fishing - bears being opportunistic creatures would smell your kill and think easy lunch.

Situational Awareness... in AK that is your best defense. Bear spray is a good backup.

MNS
_________________________
YMMV. Viewer discretion is advised.

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#86573 - 02/15/08 07:10 AM Re: bears - NOT Again! (DBB) Dead By Bear [Re: kevonionia]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
T & V did something similar to what is know as 'suicide by cop".

A law enforcement friend has delt with the aftermath several times. When the unwilling participant is a human they carry the scar the rest of their life, when it is a wild animal they die.

Sad, very sad.

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#86574 - 02/15/08 07:18 AM Re: Religion and Politics on this forum [Re: Brumfield]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Quote:
But, I will not cow tow to anyone that tries to dictate to me when and where I can give glory to God in my conversation. Anyone that wishes to demand that of me or anyone else should move to China


I don't believe anyone has dictated any such thing. However, this website and others like it should not be confused with free speech zones. Subject matter and rules of decorum are set by the owner and those appointed as moderators. We can voice an opinion, but it is ultimately up to their discretion.

When people who don't share a set of beliefs are referred to as "deceived and deluded" or when derogatory comments are posted about other religions and political candidates, someone is bound to take umbrage. I may be going out on a limb here, but I believe the owner of this website would prefer that such exchanges be excluded from the discussion forums.

For the record, anyone who tells me to move from my homeland is likely to receive an equally disrespectful (or more so) reply.

Now, can we return to the subject of bears?


Edited by Paddy_Crow (02/15/08 07:41 AM)

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#86575 - 02/15/08 08:00 AM Re: bears - (DBB) Dead By Bear - Suicide by bear [Re: ringtail]
Brumfield Offline
member

Registered: 12/23/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Expat from New Orleans, now in...
Quote:
T & V did something similar to what is know as 'suicide by cop".

A law enforcement friend has delt with the aftermath several times. When the unwilling participant is a human they carry the scar the rest of their life, when it is a wild animal they die.

Sad, very sad.


Yes, it is sad. While viewing the NatGeo special on Timothy Treadwel, I couldn't help thinking that Tredwel had suicidal tendencies. His manner of approaching the grizzlies was comparable to walking out on the freeway at night while dressed in black. Even before seeing the end of the documentary and learning that he was killed by a bear, it kinda gave me the creeps when he repeated over and over again, "I want to become one with the bears". He really did get his wish when he "became one" with the bear that ate him. Treadwel has also now become one with the earth through the soil on which his digested remains were deposited. Suicide by bear... interesting point of view, and I think you may be right on in Timothy Treadwel's case. Brum
_________________________



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#86576 - 02/15/08 09:23 AM Back to Bears....everyone stay on topic. [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3571
Loc: Texas

Ok, everyone, lighten up and go back to your corners.

We're talking about Bears here. PM, "Off Topic", or 'new' thread for anything else.

This is not directed at anyone specifically.

Paul <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (still smiling)
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#86577 - 02/15/08 10:51 AM Re: Back to Bears....everyone stay on topic. [Re: Dryer]
Paddy_Crow Offline
member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 2285
Loc: Michigan
Do you think they will win their division next year, or do you like the Packers to repeat? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#86578 - 02/15/08 11:03 AM Re: let's try a native's perspective [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
Quote:
Brum,

I've noticed a few of your posts laced with political and religious comments. If you wish to discuss those topics, perhaps a thread could be started in the off topic forum. But my feeling is that it should be left out of the discussion forums.

And that's all I have to say about that...


Folks, let's be civil here, Barry was'nt intentionally injecting his religion into his posts. The Man IS doing the Lord's work by going to help less fortunate folks; and if he should make mention of it it's in passing as I understand it. Tolerance is something we here on this forum should advocate, and I'm no poster child for it myself <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Once a thread 'wanders' it detracts from the OP's information thread when someone looks it up in the future. I'll make you ALL a deal, if everyone who posted from Paddy Crow down from the post I am quoting; will PM a moderator and allow their post to be moved off this thread, to a new thread in Off Topic with the heading Barry's Views; I'll RESTRAIN myself from posting ANY emoticons for a whole WEEK of my posts <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

So that means the above emoticon will be my last until a week from today...Who's in?
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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#86579 - 02/15/08 11:19 AM Re: Back to Bears....everyone stay on topic. [Re: Paddy_Crow]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3571
Loc: Texas
Hmmmm....Yeah, I guess "Bears" is the same thing as "da Bears".

Ok, we can talk about 'bears' OR "Bears". This should be REAL interesting.
Maybe..."The rights of the citizen to keep and arm Bears shall not be infringed..."
Should the 'Packers' carry guns, or, Bear spray?
All this, and more, on the 6 o'clock news! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, Paddy! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Enough.....'bears'. Little 'b'.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

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#86580 - 02/15/08 12:37 PM Re: Back to Bears....everyone stay on topic. [Re: Dryer]
Earthling Offline
member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 3228
Loc: USA
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> And my post above was not intended to say that Paddy Crow was being less than civil. I just quoted that post because it was at the top of the portion of thread that was unrelated to the Bear topic IMO.

No insult intended to Paddy Crow, just want to set the record straight...The Giants WON the SUPERBOWL! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />...and I'm a Patriots fan <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
PEPPER SPRAY AIN'T BRAINS IN A CAN!

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