Just wanted to introduce myself real quick. I live on the eastern side of washington state just a mile from a rather small state park. So you can imagine that I get to spend a lot of time out hiking.

I do have to ask though: Does anybody still use an external frame pack besides me?

Welcome to the forum.

To answer your question, just a week ago I was out backpacking and saw a couple who were both using external frame packs. If you're happy with your pack and it lets you do whatever you want to do in reasonable comfort, there is no compelling reason to replace it.

Welcome to the forums!

Lot's of people I know use external frame packs. Many of those old Keltys are lighter than a lot of the internal frame packs for sale nowadays and I wouldn't swap one out for them.

I like to hike off trail in dense forest and I've seen some hikers struggle when they tie sleeping bags, pads, etc, up high on the top bar above the pack. They get tangled up in tree branches and whatnot. I never packed mine like that so it was never an issue for me, but I've known lots of others who load them that way. They all mostly hiked on trails though, so maybe they work better that way for them.

For me, the last thing I think about is style (my wife will confirm that), and to a pretty great degree I think many of the newer lower end internal frame packs are really just designed for style. External frame packs look old fashion now to the casual observer, but that's kind of silly when you think about it. A pack is gear, and if it works well for you there's not much reason to change it. Unless of course you're the kind of person who really likes to experiment with gear, then you can't have enough packs, or stoves, or sleeping bags, etc. We have a few of those here, they know who they are and you'll find out soon enough too

We're all lucky to have them here too. We get first hand reviews from folks who have a huge frame of reference and no financial gain to be bias.

I still see external frames being used now and again. I still use my WFS Mt Blanc external for heavier loads when canoe tripping. As bill mentioned, they can be lighter than some of the internal framed packs. Good stuff, just not fashionable these days. neither is most of my gear though.

Personally, I prefer an eternal frame. I've never gotten hung up when off trail. And since I don't have a car the shopping gets done on foot. Ever try to lash an oversized item to an internal frame or no-frame pack? Not a lot of fun to carry.

But I never see external frames around here. I do have to admit that my pack tends to be pretty empty these days though. Most of my gear got stolen by my brother-in-law and will have to be replaced. Right now all I have is an old Stansport external frame pack, a no-name sleeping bag, and an old cook-set from when I was a kid. Needless to say, bad weather on the trail can really take the fun out of a trip.

Actually, there are more of them out there than you think. If you see anyone carrying an Osprey Atmos or Exos, they are fundamentally external frame packs, made better by adapting technological advances such as arrow-shaft aluminum for the frame (as opposed to the welded-pipe style we all grew up with) and adapting internal frame packbag designs that do a better job of keeping the load close. They've also eliminated the high top bar that snagged on everything, and enclosed the bottom part where you used to lash on your sleeping bag (it now goes inside the pack, like an internal.)

Having said that, they are still extermal frames: a perimeter metal frame (sewn into the perimeter of the bag) with a tautly-tensioned "trampoline" backband.

And they're great packs. My buddy carried an Atmos on his AT thru-hike, and it's still his go-to pack. They carry well, and carry what are (by today's standards) heavy loads of 35-45 pounds in great comfort. I still prefer an internal frame, but not because there's anything inherently wrong with the Atmos; I just prefer the internal frame snug against my back (and in Ohio, in the summer, the great ventilation of the Atmos' trampoline band doesn't keep your back cooler - it just lets the 85% humidity air next to it.)

If you like what you've got, use it. If you do consider replacing it, and like external frames, take a look at the Atmos or Exos. If you like a traditional internal frame, check out the Osprey Kestrel or Volt, or the Deuter ACT Lite or ACT Zero packs.

Considering my income, if I do get a new pack, I got a feeling it will probably be something like a Kelty Trekker or similar. Good design and relatively low cost.

But thanks for the advice. I may be able to go internal frame someday.

Yeah, I went a bit geeky about the packs, but my real point is that, in backpacking, the more things change, the more they mostly stay the same. A 40 pound weekend load may now be a 25 pound load, thanks to newer, better materials and some devilishly clever engineering. But the mountains are still the mountains, the achingly bright blue of the sky still inspires, and suddenly leaving the woods to find a field of riotous color because all the wildflowers are in bloom will still stop you dead in your tracks. Sleeping out is just as refreshing to the body as ever, and the stillness as evening turns to night still restores the soul.

The load still has to be carried, even if it is lighter - and the pack means you aren't walking down the trail with a couple of grocery sacks full of gear in your hands. The best one is the one that makes the lugging most pleasant (or least unpleasant) for you.

Grocery sacks full of gear? Have you been following me around?

I still remember when I was taught the diamond hitch to securely fasten otherwise handheld gear to my external frame pack. Very secure method unlike the swinging-tied-on-attempts still seen today. I still use the diamond hitch from time to time to secure loads in canoes or atop kayaks. I have also used it to attach a large dry bag to an external frame for portaging. The frame itself (with harness/belt) is incredible light and I can securely fasten multiple dry bags to it with the diamond hitch.

Having been a long-haul trucker, I tend to use a cargo hitch myself. But that's only because I'm more familiar, thus more comfortable, with that than most others.

I use a World Famous Everest external frame pack. My son uses a North Face.

I am an external frame fan too. New to the forums as well (although I lurked for a long time before signing on).

I love my external frame packs. I still have the first one I bought, a Coleman Peak 1 circa 1981- albeit needing a new waistbelt. Yes, it's not that vintage but still hauls stuff when I need.

The other two I have are Kelty Trekkers. Long live the externals!


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I've been thinking of getting a Kelty trekker once I can afford a new pack. What do you think of trekkers?

My current pack is and old Stansport model with the straps from my old "Alice" pack lashed to the frame. And I'm getting real tired of re-doing the lashing every few times I use it.

Is that one of the flex-frame models that were molded "plastic" instead of metal? My son loved his. It was one of the early attempts to adapt technological advances into e-frames.

Mine is a metal-frame attempt to copy the Jansport "Carson". A decent pack but really lacking in the strap department. The shoulder straps lasted only one weekend trip so I was forced to put the straps from an old military bag on it. I'll be so happy to be able to replace it.

Yes it is, it was ahead of it's time. Kind of funny now how the military uses plastic frames for some of it's rucks.


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Well, goes to show you how well I pay attention... The one pack I thought was a Trekker is actually a Yukon... ooops! BUT, I did just get a Demo model Trekker that I've only used on one weekend trip- I liked the shoulder straps much more on the Trekker than the Yukon.

I know there are lighter options out there which are mostly internals, but I just like how the externals ride on my back. YMMV


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You can put together a pretty nice outfit on the cheap. You can get some pretty nice shoulder straps and waist belts online now and with some simple hand stitching you can get them on your old frame and be pretty comfortable.

I took an old Coleman Peak external and made a replacement sack for it out of feed bags and lashed it to the frame with nylon webbing. I packed it like an internal frame pack, with all my stuff inside. It worked pretty darn good.

Now I mostly use a homemade alcohol stove called a Super Cat Stove. It's as light as they get and cost $4 or less to make. There are a bunch of designs for homemade alcohol stoves for backpacking. And I use a $6 aluminum "Grease Pot" to cook in that I got at Wal-Mart. Together they are very light, dependable, and easy to use.

I made my own tent out of plastic "emergency blankets", visqueen, and duct tape (no sewing), and I like it a lot too. Honestly, I wouldn't trade it for any tent on the market right now. I made it just how I wanted it and it works great. It's pretty light too, and it only cost me about $35 and a couple evenings to make.

There are a lot of great tips and tricks in the Make Your Own Gear forum here that can help lighten your load without emptying your wallet. I've learned a lot there and had a lot of fun making and using the things I've made.

I had actually thought of just getting better straps for the pack I'm using right now. But looking some more at this thing, I don't think this frame is gonna last much longer. But it was beat up and leaning against a dumpster when I found it a couple years ago. Between my frequent "I'm going camping before I slap the pastor's daughter" trips, and also using it to carry the groceries a couple times each week. I think it's time to start doing the sad puppy dog routine until my wife can't stand it anymore and let's me get a new pack.

considering the direction this thread is taking and the length, shouldn't it be about time for a mod to move it to a more appropriate section?

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, it's a good discussion on External Packs so I did move it to the "gear" forum.