Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Quote:
This may sound silly as a comparison, but maybe you should go sit on a mountain with your compass and map and see if you CAN triangulate a position. I failed to do it, even though I knew exactly where I was, I could not draw crossed lines to show my position.
That's not at all silly, that's exactly what people should do. Practicing that is how you get proficient with using topo maps.
I've done this many times, and with a pretty high degree of accuracy too. I have stood on a ridge and oriented the map by reading the contour lines and comparing them with the shape of distant ridges. Then I take the angles to two points on those ridges and plot them on my map, where they intersect is where I am. No compass is required for this, but as W_D said, you have to be able to look at the map and clearly visualize the terrain it displays.
I suspect that if you don't have an intuitive understanding of a topo map the first time it's explained to you, you may never find them useful. I've had guitars explained to me lots of times, but in my hands they're useless unless I intend on annoying musicians (You'd think they'd like "Smoke on the Water", but it really does tend to annoy them very quickly. I never even make it to the lyrics).
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People should LOOK where they are going and then LOOK for landmarks when they return
That is absolutely true, and I think we can all learn to do that.
Along with looking where you are going and knowing where you are, one should frequently look back and ""know" from whence one is coming. You might have to retrace your route and it always looks different going than it does coming back.
Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Jim, I remember a few years ago, when we had the TLB backpack up Eagle Creek, that you wanted to drive to Wahtum Lake via roads showing on Google Maps that have been closed to vehicle traffic for many years. I have found so many inaccuracies on Google maps that I would never trust them! I also shudder at the many people who have been lost/stranded in rural and mountainous areas by following the GPS in their cars onto closed/abandoned roads. Some of those people have died!
I triangulate with topo map and compass every time I'm on a high point. Partly for practice, but mostly because I enjoy identifying the peaks and other prominent features. Besides, it's a good excuse to stop for a rest, something I find myself doing a lot more of these days!
In more open country I can usually go by the map without using a compass. Over here on the west side of the Cascades, though, the forests are dense, the canyon walls high and low clouds too frequent! Besides, moss grows on all sides of the trees around here!
I generally have a pretty good feel for the the direction in which I'm going. The big exception was when I emerged from the Paris metro about 11 pm the same day I flew there from the US. Nothing like a combination of jet lag and traveling underground to completely remove any sense of direction! If a friendly passer-by hadn't stopped to help, I'd probably still be looking for the hotel!
As I've mentioned before, the last thing I need is another electronic gadget requiring batteries and a learning curve. So no GPS for me! I'm still trying to puzzle out the instruction manual for the camera I was given in 2007!
Back in my day, they taught us to read maps in school. I don't see that happening with my grandkids, though. Makes me wonder what, if anything, the schools are teaching! All three are going to have map/compass games with me next weekend!
Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
When it comes to navigating in the outdoors, I am inclusive. When I have my choice of GPS, topo maps, and or aerial photos, I routinely choose all of the above. A lot of my outdoors navigation has involved locating and mapping archaeological sites (what is known as " archaeological survey"). Nothing beats looking at a photo and recognizing the tree or rocks you are standing under. Each tool has its own best characteristics and uses. I do find that in areas of fairly rugged relief that a compass doesn't get used all that much.But when you need it, you really need it.
I worked for a time in and around Canyon de Chelly, and it lead to some interesting navigation experiences. Navigation in the sheer, sinuous canyons was dead simple. Just count the bends in the route and you can fix your position precisely; unique landmarks abound. But climb out of the canyons and different procedures apply. You are on a sloping, flat plateau with a thick pinyon-juniper woodland all crisscrossed by truck trails (that are not on maps and may not even be present on recent photos). Break out the compass and mind the declination! Sometimes on the plateau you could be within fifty feet of a major drainage before you were able to see it. But once there, you could usually get an absolute fix.
Besides, well made topo maps are absolute works of art as well as nostalgic reminders of good trips, nifty climbs, and daring deeds...
After de Chelly, I worked in the Channel Islands - compasses rule! On the water, don't even think of leaving the harbor without a functioning compass. In storms or foggy weather that restricts visibility, you compass will become invaluable.
Mouse - I remember coming out of the METRO on a foggy night seek the youth hostel in Paris.
Anyway I think we can all agree that having a topo map is important: if you know how to read it, you have the correct one with up to date information, AND you have to carry it in your hand and use it like a "program" at a show, keeping track of where you are and don't get lost. If its in your pack its not gonna be as useful.
Obviously having more information is better than less and carrying all of the navigation devices might be a good idea, on the other hand carrying a whole bunch of other stuff might be a good idea too so we make decisions. Like W_D, I carried my compass for decades and never used it, then one time I did, I failed to orient the map and ended walking in the wrong direction anyway. [If I hadn't failed miserably trying to get unlost with compasses I would not complain about their lack of value so much.]
So it depends - on the terrain as much as anything. Try triangulating on mountain peaks when you are in a valley sometime. Problem is that you can't see them. This is where a topo is useful if you can figure out which drainage you are in. Around here a body of water or stream is so rare that it serves as a landmark.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.
Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I think this whole discussion illustrates beautifully the point that mere possession of the gadget isn't enough. You must also have the skills and knowledge to use the gadget.
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