Jimshaw
member
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Here's an idea that we were tossing around when I lived in San Francisco. to cut right to the (tounge in cheek) quick:
San Francisco has a lot of homeless people. Send a bunch of them to the national parks for the summer (like Yosemite) and they will live in tent camps (which they are accustomed to anyway) down by the stables so no one can say they stink up the place. They sign on as sherpas to carry your camping gear for you and all you have to do is feed them - they also carry their own gear in 80 pound frame packs. The federal government pays them to do this because they get carbon credits for it that they sell to China especially the homeless vets will find the weight to be easy to carry... Actually in Yosemite you CAN get someone to take your pack to a pre-set up camp on horseback while you hike - why not have a sherpa instead?
Some of my best friends are vets who live in homeless camps so don't tell me I'm not Pc. Those guys could do a lot of trail work and live in the parks but the NPS is too uptight. I mean they can't afford rangers right? And the rangers they have now are law enforcement people. Why not vets?
Now what were those Roman chairs called? The ones with a bunch of guys carrying it? I think some roman emperor had one made of granite and carried by a thousand - err - employees.... maybe that was just in the movie? Why walk? Jim
Edited by Jimshaw (12/13/1202:11 AM)
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These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.
Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Originally Posted By Jimshaw
I mean they can't afford rangers right? And the rangers they have now are law enforcement people. Why not vets?
Jim, I realize your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek, and that's fine, but I do want to raise a point of order. The vast majority of uniformed NPS folks (85%) are non law enforcement types- maintenance, interpreters, even archaeologists, for heavens sakes. The commissioned rangers now sport different badges (Badges, what badges?, we don't need no stinking badges...)and are usually carrying a sidearm. You will recognize them if you encounter them.
Here's an idea that we were tossing around when I lived in San Francisco. to cut right to the (tounge in cheek) quick:
San Francisco has a lot of homeless people. Send a bunch of them to the national parks for the summer (like Yosemite) and they will live in tent camps (which they are accustomed to anyway) down by the stables so no one can say they stink up the place. They sign on as sherpas to carry your camping gear for you and all you have to do is feed them - they also carry their own gear in 80 pound frame packs. The federal government pays them to do this because they get carbon credits for it that they sell to China especially the homeless vets will find the weight to be easy to carry... Actually in Yosemite you CAN get someone to take your pack to a pre-set up camp on horseback while you hike - why not have a sherpa instead?
Some of my best friends are vets who live in homeless camps so don't tell me I'm not Pc. Those guys could do a lot of trail work and live in the parks but the NPS is too uptight. I mean they can't afford rangers right? And the rangers they have now are law enforcement people. Why not vets?
Now what were those Roman chairs called? The ones with a bunch of guys carrying it? I think some roman emperor had one made of granite and carried by a thousand - err - employees.... maybe that was just in the movie? Why walk? Jim
Do you think the homeless in San Francisco would take the cut in pay?
OregonMouse
member
Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Actually, a sedan chair was for only one person. In Roman times, they used a litter which could contain several persons (so they could party while the slaves carried them). Lectica seems to be the word that fits the best.
No, I am not a walking encyclopedia! Amazing what you can find out on google these days....
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey
Jimshaw
member
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Somehow I'll bet it was the people carrying the "litters" that nicknamed them that, after their opinion of the people they carried!!!
No I don't think the homeless could afford to live on the wages without also pan-handling at the cafeteria for food.
But living in stables would beat the heck outa the conditions right now out at my friends' camp. It was 11 degrees last night and its snowing now and its gonna snow for a while.
I should say that my homeless friends would almost carry my pack to get me to ake them camping on the mountain. They leave their camping gear at camp and carry there backpacking gear... Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.
I think there is a fine line between really helping the homeless and exploiting them for your own purpose. Unless the homeless person being considered is an experienced outdoorsman, then you are putting them at risk. They porter your stuff in and then have to go out alone. I also fear that what would happen is that an unscrupulous person would form a company that does this, pay them miserable "wages", put them at risk, and reap the profits.
The whole problem with "porters" in general is that once you pay them, they fall undre commercial rules -need to get a commercial permit. It really is quite complicated. Doing it under the table has its own risks.
If you know a homeless person who you think would be a porter, just ask them to go with you as an equal and pay their way in return for them carrying more of your load. If you do not see them as your equal, then I would call this human trafficking or economic slavery.
Jimshaw
member
Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3983
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Where its true that the unscrupulous managers would be the federal government, the homeless are already in economic servitude to the fed. Many of these guys - especially the vets ARE in the shape to be porters. Anyway its just a thought because the homeless have very little and in case no one noticed - they are not allowed in the national parks currently. Many people live out in the woods and do the same thing in their everyday lives, except they get nothing for it. A job in Yosemite would be an improvement and anyway the people who do currently work in Yosemite only make subsistant wages. I was thinking this might be a source of pride. rather than living in a homeless camp, I could live in Yosemite, and maybe wear a "guide" hat!!!!!!!!
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.
Where its true that the unscrupulous managers would be the federal government, the homeless are already in economic servitude to the fed. Many of these guys - especially the vets ARE in the shape to be porters. Anyway its just a thought because the homeless have very little and in case no one noticed - they are not allowed in the national parks currently. Many people live out in the woods and do the same thing in their everyday lives, except they get nothing for it. A job in Yosemite would be an improvement and anyway the people who do currently work in Yosemite only make subsistant wages. I was thinking this might be a source of pride. rather than living in a homeless camp, I could live in Yosemite, and maybe wear a "guide" hat!!!!!!!!
Jim
I just can't help but remember the guy in San Francisco that lost his job and started panhandling. He kept up on all his payments including his house and Mercedes and his family didn't even know he'd lost his job for over a year.
Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3293
Loc: Portland, OR
I would have to think that the gentleman in question was an exceptionally talented and successful panhandler, somewhere in the top 0.1%. He was probably overqualified for the job.
billstephenson Moderator
Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I think it's a great idea that could be easily managed in a way that would benefit all involved. Surely a pay scale could be worked out that would be fair.
I don't see how it's much different than the WPA programs. It seems a natural extension to the work that was done with those projects and one that is self sustaining at that.
I think since we're talking about public lands here, and there is probably a good market for that labor, that it absolutely should be implemented. We need creative ways to put people to work, and this one qualifies. I really don't see any downside here.
We could certainly look for a downside. Liability will always be pointed out, but contracts can limit that and arrangements can be made to insure against other costs that require it.
The more I ponder the possibilities, the more I believe this really is a great idea.
billstephenson Moderator
Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
I read an Arthur Conan Doyle story (Sherlock Holmes) this Summer that had something like that as the central plot. Perhaps the panhandler in question read it too
When I was a kid living in Hollywood there was a "Crazy guy" who pretended to pitch a baseball game on a corner of Hollywood Blvd. He had a coffee can for tips. He was pretty good, there was always a lot of action in his games. I heard he had a fairly new Caddy parked around the corner that he drove home every evening.
I would have to think that the gentleman in question was an exceptionally talented and successful panhandler, somewhere in the top 0.1%. He was probably overqualified for the job.
There are actually quite a few of these in San Francisco. They tend to hang out around the touristy areas and have a gimmick that gets them extra money ("Cat Man", "Bush Man" etc...). When I see these guys I don't feel gypped when I give them money because they're earning what they get by being entertaining.
OregonMouse
member
Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
IMHO, there's a lot of difference between a panhandler, who is just asking for money, and someone who is "busking"--i.e., playing an instrument or doing an act and taking donations for it. It's more common in Europe because in this country there are laws against it in a lot of places. Too bad, because the wide variety of talent on the street is one of the things that makes European cities so interesting. We do have quite a few in downtown Portland, which is one of the things that gives our city something of a European feel.
In quite a few cases, there was more talent among the buskers than in the indoor concerts for which I had to buy an expensive ticket! Needless to say, I did and still do donate to the buskers.
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They sign on as sherpas to carry your camping gear for you and all you have to do is feed them - they also carry their own gear in 80 pound frame packs. The federal government pays them to do this because they get carbon credits for it that they sell to China 
especially the homeless vets will find the weight to be easy to carry... 
Actually in Yosemite you CAN get someone to take your pack to a pre-set up camp on horseback while you hike - why not have a sherpa instead? 
(Couldn't resist.)
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