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#172444 - 11/29/12 12:59 AM Re: some stuff to watch out for winter snow camping [Re: skcreidc]
Paul Offline
member

Registered: 09/30/02
Posts: 778
Loc: California
Chris - Are you skiing or snowshoeing or what? If you are skiing, and you are thinking of plastic telemark/touring boots with thermo-moldable liners, then those liners are an effective VBL. They don't breathe, and they don't absorb much moisture - just in the fabric that is the inside surface. My experience has been great with mine. I wear fairly thin socks, mostly synthetic, and I air out at lunch if I can and in the evening after making camp. The socks usually dry in the evening or at worst overnight, and the little bit of moisture in the liners usually dries as well. I have pretty sweaty feet, yet I never feel like my feet are wet in these boots, even on days when I am definitely hot and sweaty. You wouldn't need a spare pair of liners - they dry well at night. I take three pair of socks and rotate them.

If you are snowshoeing it's a different situation, and I don't know what setup would work well, since you can't get similar boots for snowshoeing. I have heard good things about Neoprene socks when used with the right liner socks. They work as VBL but are durable and very warm.

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#172471 - 11/29/12 05:13 PM Re: some stuff to watch out for winter snow camping [Re: Paul]
TomD Offline
Moderator

Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
Paul, what are you wearing? Something like a Garmont Excursion? For snowshoeing, in really cold weather, I would recommend something like a Sorel, Baffin or maybe a mukluk. For warmer weather, I think a regular boot would work as long as you have gaiters to keep out the snow. I wear gaiters all the time in snow, regardless of what I'm doing.
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#172484 - 11/30/12 08:59 AM Re: some stuff to watch out for winter snow camping [Re: Paul]
skcreidc Offline
member

Registered: 08/16/10
Posts: 1590
Loc: San Diego CA
Paul, it's all snowshoeing for now. The last couple of years I have gotten out for 4 overnighters and am looking to get out for some longer trips (like the old days). I have no skiing gear left whatsoever, and with 2 kids in college starting next year I don't think that will change soon grin. Although I would love to, I also just don't have the time and money to get my skiing skill set up to speed. Maybe after 4 more years....
wink



Chris

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#172497 - 11/30/12 06:37 PM Re: some stuff to watch out for winter snow camping [Re: Brotherbob12]
Cheetahwoka Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Sequoia NP, CA, USA
Thanks Bob. Since my last post on this topic, I have tried plastic bags twice just to start working on it. I wore them right on my feet with no liner (didn't have one) and of course it felt nasty, which I got used to, somewhat, but a sock liner is obviously needed. In the past liners gave me blisters (even though they are supposed to prevent them). But I'll try your formula next.

One problem, because the plastic bag is slick, it caused my foot to slide more easily than normal into the toe box, and I kept having to avoid toe bash walking down hill. I cranked the laces tighter, but that caused general foot pain. A friend purchased some VBLs for the feet, maybe they have a cloth-like texture that prevents the foot slithering forward. Any more words of wisdom?

Any words on using full-body VBL in the sleeping bag? Experiences? Products?

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#172499 - 11/30/12 07:34 PM Re: some stuff to watch out for winter snow camping [Re: Heather-ak]
Cheetahwoka Offline
newbie

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Sequoia NP, CA, USA
Thanks Heather, for mentioning the bunny boots, I didn't know about them, and now I do. They are MONSTERS and I'm stoked to know about them. For my use, they'd be like cutting butter with a chainsaw. What a great boot.

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#172503 - 12/01/12 12:58 AM Re: some stuff to watch out for winter snow camping [Re: Heather-ak]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Heather
A friend of mine brought a pair of those boots along on a winter trip to the Sierras. I was wearing my ancient Sorels. After a while of sitting up in the moonlight he says \, "My feet are cold and I'm wearing -60 boots, they don't work!!!!!"

I asked him what he was wearing on his legs and he had some lightweight insulated pants on. I told him that I had brought a spare pair of real down pants for him to wear and to try them on. Ten minutes later his feet were toasty warm.

The moral of the story is - It doesn't matter how well your feet are insulated if the blood arrivibg there has cooled down already - to keep your feet warm - insulate your legs. grin If you are properly insulated in the winter your face will glow because it will be the only spot that radiate heat well and if you take off your glove your hands will steam.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#172516 - 12/01/12 03:29 PM Re: some stuff to watch out for winter snow camping [Re: Cheetahwoka]
Brotherbob12 Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 71
Loc: Sweden
Originally Posted By Cheetahwoka

One problem, because the plastic bag is slick, it caused my foot to slide more easily than normal into the toe box, and I kept having to avoid toe bash walking down hill. I cranked the laces tighter, but that caused general foot pain. A friend purchased some VBLs for the feet, maybe they have a cloth-like texture that prevents the foot slithering forward. Any more words of wisdom?

Any words on using full-body VBL in the sleeping bag? Experiences? Products?

My feet slide more in VBL, but so far it has not been a problem. The toe bash probably depends on shoe size and type.
I have not used VBL in the sleeping bag, but for polar expedition it seems to be standard. On my trips (up to 5 days) I have noticed ice under the shell fabric and loss of loft. For longer trips and colder temperatures without possibility to dry equipment it would be a serious problem. I think Western Mountaineering sells VBL.
Something to consider is that you can only wear very thin underwear in the VBL not possible to wear other clothing. A warmer bag might therefore needed. I will try this some day but for now my trips are not that long

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#172526 - 12/01/12 07:51 PM Re: some stuff to watch out for winter snow camping [Re: Brotherbob12]
OregonMouse Offline
member

Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6399
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
You could also wear a VBL suit, with your base layer underneath and your insulation on top. i have non-breathable rain gear, and that's what I use as a vapor barrier when the temp gets below freezing. It really works wonders in keeping moisture out of the sleeping bag!


Edited by OregonMouse (12/01/12 07:52 PM)
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey

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#172571 - 12/03/12 03:32 PM Re: some stuff to watch out for winter snow camping [Re: Jimshaw]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
I am usually so well insulated I look like the little brother from "A Christmas Story" - have to be careful not to fall down wink

I usually have more problems staying cool than warm when winter hiking. My toes do get colder and get cold before any other part of my body though. So far the only boots to work for my poor toes is the Bunny Boots - and yes I'm wearing insulated pants (http://www.akgear.com/bibs-pants.html) or my trusty carharts.

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#172621 - 12/04/12 05:18 PM Re: some stuff to watch out for winter snow camping [Re: Heather-ak]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Heather, what other boots have you tried? I am just curious, don't really have a solution for you.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

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#172629 - 12/04/12 06:48 PM Re: some stuff to watch out for winter snow camping [Re: finallyME]
Heather-ak Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 597
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
I'm very happy with my boots I was just replying to Jim's make sure you insulate your legs post. =)

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