A friend of mine is trying to get his pack weight down from 75 pounds and I thought I would print out the 18 pound 3 day pack list from the forum, since it says that it is for 3 seasons in the Cacades. The list was last updated a long time ago and some of the items are no lnger available.

HOWEVER - said sternly - as a cacades resident I have to say that this IS NOT adequate gear for 3 seasons in the cascades - this is only a summer nice weather list.

The clothing would be alright if you put something warm on over it. The temps at altitude can be freezing most any night of the year. For three season I'd add down pants and down jacket - a warm one with a hood.

For summer I'd add fleece pants and a fleece jacket, a warm hat and gloves. The gloves mentioned on the list are UL liner gloves - worthless when wet and too thin for 32 degree weather, but maybe ok for summer with rain gloves to put over them.

with bivy sack, foam pad and caribou bag you would be hard put to be warm at 40 degrees in a wind, and the rainy weather here sort of precludes bivy sacks - tarps are the minimum. You just don't sleep "under the stars" in the cascades

I personally do not carry many of the items listed under "essential" or "navigation", I instead err on the side of warm dry clothing and rain and bug protection. I might add a 7 ounce "mosquito net" so I can enjoy myself in a swarm of mosquitoes or yellow jackets on a summer day.

Soap box off
Jim

Where's this 3 day 18lb list located? Thx

Matt

Home page of this site, left-hand column

Jim, that list is for a 3-day trip in summer. Generally for no more than a 3-day trip in the Cascades in mid-summer, you have a relatively reliable weather forecast. I agree, though, that even for three days it's a little risky considering that our forecasts out here have been known to change rapidly. Except for food, fuel, water and a few toiletries, I pack the same whether going out overnight or for 10 days.

If you look at the Seven-Day List, you'll find more warm stuff, including top and bottom base layer and a warmer sleeping bag. Obviously, you can't rely on weather forecasts that far out, and the gear list reflects this fact!

When I lightened my pack, I used Packlite's 7-day list. It has worked just fine for me clothing-wise, and I get cold very easily. In fact, even for temps in the low 20's, I've used just the Primaloft jacket with no vest (plus base layer, windshirt and rain gear) and been plenty warm enough. If it's going to be colder than that (such as spring and fall) I take a 100-weight fleece vest in addition. That's to wear under wind shirt or rain jacket while actively moving. When I stop to admire the view (aka rest ), the insulating jacket comes out to add to the ensemble while I'm sitting still.

I have recently switched to a down jacket because it's definitely both warmer and lighter than the Primaloft. However, I am still a bit leery about using down insulation for both sleeping bag and insulating clothing, and definitely don't recommend this to beginners!

I have similar fleece gloves (same weight as in the 7-day list) which are a lot thicker than liners. However, they are too thick for camp chores such as lighting the stove. I therefore use Smartwool liner gloves (don't melt when handling a hot pot) for camp chores. They may be less warm than thicker gloves, but gloves you have to take off for most chores are less warm yet! Unless the temps are way below freezing, the Smartwool liners are adequate with lightweight rain shells (hard to find these days). I take a pair of fleece mittens in addition for shoulder season trips.

The only item on the 7-day list that is no longer available are the Mountainsmith pack. However, its weight is a good one to aim for for those carrying total pack weight of 27 lbs. or less. I ignored the Mt. Washington pad (the equivalent would be a cut-down Z-Rest or Gossamer Gear's Nightlite) because there is absolutely no way I could be comfortable on it! I offset my heavier insulated air pad with a lighter tent and lighter pack.

I have since gotten my own gear list several pounds lighter, without sacrificing any comfort or safety. However, IMHO the 7-day list is an excellent one to aim for, which is why I consistently recommend it. I may qualify my reference to the home page articles from now on to stating that the 3-day list is only when the forecast is for good weather!

This is the first time I have looked at the lists! If I were to make such a list I would try to make it a LOT more generic. I kind of got glazed over eyes with all the detail.

For example, I would just say CLOTHING WORN= underware, socks, shoes, pants, shirt, sun hat, (4-5 pounds), CLOTHING IN THE PACK= weatherproof outer layer, two upper body insulation layers, and top and bottom baselayers, stocking hat, mitts, extra socks, aim for a total of about 6-7 pounds. After I presented the basic pack contents, I would have a mix-and-match lists of examples that would work. Here you can get into the product names and details.

I think aiming for the minimum number of layers (or items) and total catagory weights works better because everyone has different needs. For example, I never get cold hands and even when I expect below freezing temperatures, I only take one pair of rag wool mittens. I have NEVER worn mitts hiking or cooking. Yet, I have trouble with cold feet! Detail lists at the end then give people an idea of what is out there. The basic list stays the same because it really is a system concept; the detailed lists change as technology advances and new stuff becomes available. When we put out a list with one brand name only, it looks a bit like we are endorsing a particular brand.

Just my pereference, but probably not agreed upon by everyone.

Good point Daisy.

My wife gets cold hands and feet when she is hiking, and has to wear warm clothes on the trail when the temp drops below 60. She will wear an undershirt, shirt, fleece, and jacket hiking uphill in 50 degree weather.

I get warm just walking on a level trail, and usually hike with little more than a single shirt and pants, even when the temps are quite cold.

But when we stop, she stays warm, and I immediately start getting cold--cold enough to get hypothermia if I don't do something about it. I have to put on every layer in a hurry.

Clearly body temperatures are just another area where your mileage may vary!

Yea, mine's a Calif list so lighter than you would need in the PNW. But here is a link to it
http://backpacktrailhead.com/backpack-equipment-list/dees-lightweight-gear-list/
It's actually a couple lbs lighter now...
And ignore this website. It's just a website I made and am messing with to learn how to make a website! Someday it will have content on it...just playing and learning with it right now....:)

Here is a link to google doc for a couple of my gear lists. Basicly if I plan on lots of miles rather than getting there and setting up. Or I am going to fish till late. It includes a bivy and tarp. Although it isn't much heavyier to bring my single wall tent, but I prefer a bivy and keeping the option to sleep under the stars.

Gear List

June 2011 Elwha

"""The Backpacking Checklist - 18-Pound, 3-Day Backpack, is essentially a full-three-season, backcountry gear checklist configured for the Cascade Mountains, for a three-day weekend"""

thats the quote.

It was minus 2 at my house Tuesday night in Bend (east of high Cascades) at 4,000 feet. I might use my caribou bag as a liner for a bigger bag... and its snowing - I hate bivy bags in snow.

This was the only one of our gear lists that I've read. Its not a bad list as a summer list, although I've seen it drop to 15 degrees at night at 7,000 feet hear in the Fall. A marmot pinnacle bag (15 degree) is my choice.

Jim

As I already said, you can mostly depend on the weather forecast 3 days out--although not always!

I've had enough issues with unexpected weather that I never want to rely on forecasts, though!

Do take a look at the 7-day list, which is far better. I suspect that the 20*F WM Ultralite is the equivalent of a 15* Marmot bag. Even I can get down to 15*F in mine.

Do note that it most definitely is not yet spring, even officially, much less per actual weather conditions! Not with several inches of snow on the Oregon and Washington beaches the other morning! My grandkids were most displeased because it didn't snow in Seattle (a week of snow days in January wasn't enough!).

I believe the gear lists belong to Packlite, so you might want to take it up with him.

Are you right! It is NOT spring yet. We just got a good snowstorm in the mountains- chain controls on passes. But, we are THANKFUL- so far it has been big-time drought in the Sierra.

I am a cold sleeper, and have never regretted over-kill on my sleeping bag. I carry a 10-degree bag EVERYWHERE! I definitely pare down me clothing but feel the weight of a sleeping bag is really the most efficient warmth you carry in your pack. When I win the lottery, I will buy a sleeping bag for every 10-degree temperature rating! For now, I have to do with one bag to cover all kinds of conditions. I would recommend that unless there is a compelling reason that you want to reduce about a one pound of weight, I would err on the side of a beefier sleeping bag.

Yosemite this morning! Break out the zero-degree sleeping bag!

Its just that we are always telling people to go check out our gear lists, I think they need up-dating if they are really going to capture peoples imagination.

Now I also admit I have not read phats list #1 and #2.

Jim

I just looked at more of our gear lists too! I will however, admit, that my eyes glazed over before I read much. I did find out that I do not carry all of the "14 essentials". Oh well. It is good start for beginners. Some people put a lot of effort in these. Thanks! The lists do seem a bit out-dated and, for me, a bit too specific and too comlpicated. For example, "water and filter"-I would rather it simply said "water purification" and then have a link to some more details about water purification.

Jim- I would not characterize it as "capture our imagination", rather that present it in a more reader-friendly manner, with the realization that today's young people have an exceptionally short attention span! (hey- I do too!) Perhaps make it interactive. For example, click on a location that you will backpack, and a basic list for that environment pops up! Then put links to details. Perhaps have a few photos or You-tube clip that shows the gear and shows you stuffing it into your pack! a picture is worth a thousand words.

Detailed gear lists may be less useful than general lists.

Hey, the GoLite Ether is my favorite garment, but that is NOT useful.