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#164924 - 04/12/12 09:44 AM Re: The "Magic" of the Caldera Cone [Re: Ewker]
topshot Offline
member

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Midwest
Hopefully, that will work much better for you. I'd still try some Heet if it doesn't just to be sure.

I don't know how TD does its cone design - if they work solely on only fitting the diameter of the pot without regard for water volume or take volume into account also. It could be they made this stove TOO efficient (e.g., slow-burning). You can do that with even small amounts of water. The stove will burn a long time on little fuel, but never reach a boil because there's not enough heat for the amount of water. It could be you need a stove that burns a bit faster.

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#164944 - 04/13/12 03:10 PM Re: The "Magic" of the Caldera Cone [Re: Ewker]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By topshot
What brand denatured are you using and is it fresh? You might try some Yellow HEET just to be sure.
Denatured alcohol in the US is generally a blend of ethanol and methanol. HEET is methanol. Ethanol has a higher heat content than methanol. In other words, denatured will burn slightly hotter than HEET. If you're not getting enough heat out of denatured, you're generally not going to see any improvement by switching to HEET.

Originally Posted By topshot
The titanium also doesn't help in this case since it doesn't transfer heat as well as AL.
That's actually a fallacy. Yes, Al conducts heat better, but Ti is far stronger. Ti pots can be made that are much thinner (and therefore lighter). A thin walled Ti pot will heat water with about as much efficiency as a thicker walled Al pot.

Originally Posted By topshot
If you still can't get it to work, I'd remove your drink water from it and boil just your food water first and then boil your drink water while letting your food hydrate. 2 smaller boils are usually more efficient on fuel (if you don't have to prime any) than one bigger one, regardless of stove type. I've had a Windpro that couldn't boil 3 quarts when I was testing some worst case stuff.
Uh, no. One large boil will be more efficient in terms of total number of grams of fuel. It may be more practical to break it up into two boils, but it will not be mroe efficient.

HJ
_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#164988 - 04/15/12 12:45 PM Re: The "Magic" of the Caldera Cone [Re: Hikin Jim]
topshot Offline
member

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Midwest
I haven't noticed the Ti products being significantly thinner than AL. I'm sure they are but it's not very noticeable.

I'll stand by my experience that 2 smaller boils are more efficient. Your mileage has obviously varied. smile I should have qualified it more - I'm talking larger volumes needing to be boiled where the stove is having trouble putting out enough heat.

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#165003 - 04/16/12 06:53 PM Re: The "Magic" of the Caldera Cone [Re: topshot]
Hikin Jim Offline
member

Registered: 12/16/11
Posts: 230
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
Originally Posted By topshot
I haven't noticed the Ti products being significantly thinner than AL. I'm sure they are but it's not very noticeable.
Take a look at a periodic table of the elements some time. You'll see that titanium actually weighs more than aluminum. So how do you use a heavier material but wind up with a pot that is lighter overall? You make it thinner. Titanium is so strong that you can get away with it. It isn't going to be noticible to the eye though.

HJ


_________________________
Backpacking stove reviews and information: Adventures In Stoving

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#165021 - 04/17/12 07:35 AM Re: The "Magic" of the Caldera Cone [Re: Ewker]
ringtail Offline
member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 2296
Loc: Colorado Rockies
Originally Posted By Ewker
after using the Caldera Cone this weekend I am not impressed with it. It took 70ml of fuel to boil 40 ounces of water. That is not effective IMO. I will be cooking for two people so I am beginning to think a canister stove is going to be the best option for us.


I agree that an alcohol stove may not be the best stove for two people. I NEVER boil more than 20 oz. Efficiency drops off with any boil more than 16 oz.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
Yogi Berra

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#165022 - 04/17/12 08:09 AM Re: The "Magic" of the Caldera Cone [Re: topshot]
PerryMK Online   content
member

Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 1155
Loc: Florida panhandle
Originally Posted By topshot
I haven't noticed the Ti products being significantly thinner than AL. I'm sure they are but it's not very noticeable.

I've been learning about working with titanium recently and apparently the rule of thumb when using Ti to replace Al is to use half the thickness and adjust, often thinner yet, from there.

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#165045 - 04/17/12 03:57 PM Re: The "Magic" of the Caldera Cone [Re: PerryMK]
bigsac Offline
member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 83
Loc: Sacramento CA
I have the Caldera Cone Ti-Tri for the REI .9L pan. The titanium cone rolls up and fits inside the pan along with a small fuel bottle, small plastic measuring cup I scavenged from a Pepto Bismol bottle, fire steel and the 12-10 stove. No need for matches or a Bic, because the 12-10 fires right up with the fire steel.

I think titanium is a better, but more expensive, material for the cone than aluminum. It doesn't get as beat up as the aluminum one. And you can keep that titanium rolled up until the cows come home, but as soon as you take it out of the pan, it snaps into a nice round symmetrical cone.

With the Ti-Tri,the pan is not supported by the top of the cone, but sits on two titanium tent stakes which run through the cone. In fact, the top of the pot sits above the top of the cone a little. It has to be that way because the cone is smaller to fit inside the pot.

Some thermal efficiency is probably lost because the pot extends above the cone a little, but it packs up very nicely. You have to remember not to forget the titanium tent stakes however, and there is a chance you could lose them on a backpacking trip. I guess nothing is perfect.

I pack the tent stakes in a tent stake bag along with a long handled spoon which then goes in my food bag. The stakes won't fit inside the pot.

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