I'm looking into getting a new sleeping bag and I am on somewhat of a budget, like under $200. My trusty old slumberjack 30degree I've had since I was 9 needs to retire to the back-up position. I am looking for something lightweight, packs pretty small and in the 20 degree range.
I saw a few decent reviews for the Kelty Cosmic Down +20, and it seems like a great bag for the price. Any other suggestions would be much appreciated!
What is your priority? you get to pick two of three characteristics - light, warm, cheap.
For the lightest, most long lived, and most compressible bag for the rating you want - 800 or 900 fp down is the way to go. Unless you are hiking for weeks in 90-100% humidity.
For the compromise, a lower quality down bag will be heavier and pack not quite so small, but will be cheaper. There's a Campmor 0 degree that's probably 10-20 degrees warm - the 20 degree Campmor down bag is probably a 30 degree bag in practice. The Kelty Cosmic you mention is similar. 600 fp down has more feathers than the more expensive bags.
Synthetics will be bulkier for the rating, and wear out in a few years of frequent use. There are places and reasons to have a synthetic bag - folks often prefer them for winter.
I am ultra-cheap, so rather than replacing the bag every few years, I sprang for a 800 fp down quilt. It weighs less than a bag and has no chance of a zipper jam, and has been great down to the expected mid-20F range. For $250 it was a steal. I anticipate years of use out of it.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
I just got a Kelty Cosmic 20 degree down bag. You can get them for between $80 - $100 online. They are an economic duck down bag. The reviews are really good. I have never had a down bag of any kind; when I got mine in, I took it out of the bag and seriously thought "this is a joke." I shook it a good bit for loft and let it sit for a few minutes. It lofted up good and I climbed in for a few minutes and came out nearly sweating. Weighs in at @ 2lbs, 10oz. depending upon size.
REI outlet doesn't have any down bags on sale right now - they probably will in the spring. I got an REI Mojave bag that way, and am somewhat satisfied with it.
Campmor has several bags in the under $200 range. The Marmot Sawtooth would be a top choice for me if I wanted a new bag in that price range based on its reviews - I have no personal experience with it.
If you are a more normal hight (fit into a regular bag) swing by Dicks and see if they still have the Marmot 15 degree down bags. I almost bought one, but I was 2 inches too tall for the bag - they were cheap, nice bags.
None of these suggestions are nearly as nice as what Lori is suggesting. You get what you pay for.
There's this thing when you get your first down bag/quilt ever that makes you look at them like, no way. Not enough fill in that to keep me warm at home.
You should have seen the 800 fp quilt when I pulled it out of the 7 x 7 box it arrived in, and the look on my face. Noooooo way is that keeping me warm to 20F. Yet I shook ice off it in November, after staying warm all night as ice formed on the lake.
You just don't go back to cheap down after that.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
A really good down bag is one item worth digging down deep and spending for. It will last for years, with decent care and give you a fantastic return on investment with many comfortable nights. There are many ways to save money and cut corners on other key items in backpacking gear, but this doesn't apply to sleeping bags. Make your two choices light and warm, and the cash you shell out will be a good investment.
Thank you for all the help! I am also now looking into sewing my own down bag/quilt. I am no seamstress but I think I can pull it off. I have never used a quilt before though. Can anyone explain the differences/advantages of the two?
Making your own down item is an experience! I suggest googling for tips on working with down. It's not easy.
Quilts are like sleeping bags, minus the zipper and hood. Most will have a sewn in footbox, some allow you to open the quilt flat. I prefer the latter. Jacks R Better and many other cottage gear quiltmakers do quality work. LeighLo does hybrid down/synthetic quilts, others have synthetic models as well as down.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
I've been lurking here a while and always enjoy the wealth of information provided on this site. I also really like your blog lori, I've been checking it out for a while now.
Seeing the bag's wonderful 18 ounce weight, I almost pulled the trigger with a 40% off $150 coupon yesterday, but then noticed in reviews that it is a snug fig for bigger folks. At 225 lbs, I suspect it would be too snug for me.
This bag doesn't quite meet your 20 degree requirement, but if you are on STP's email list for their coupons, you can pick up the bag for around $100 or less and have a lot of money left from your budget to add a vapor barrier/liner for colder weather.
Vapor barriers aren't for above-zero temps, I think. Check out the Stephenson's Warmlite page and Mark Verber's page for some further info on vapor barriers.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
I've always just kept a space blanket as back-up warmth but have rarely needed to use it. It worked just fine for me, and they are dirt cheap so you can always use it to fashion a bag or clothing of some sort if need be.
Vapor barriers for sleeping bags are a separate thing - in very cold temps, you don't want your own moisture (you give off about 12 - 14 oz of moisture from your skin, excluding sweat) to get into the insulation. I have an underquilt with a mylar liner for subzero temps.
Emergency bags are just that, for emergencies, because you will be anything but comfortable with them. You'll survive, but sleeping in one is ... well, I'd have to be completely exhausted to manage it.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
I wouldn't want to sleep in one by itself, although I have on a few occasions. I would wrap myself in it and get in my bag. I tended to overheat and had to take most clothes off that that point to prevent sweating but it worked fine. I folded it back up twice and still haven't needed to get a new one.
I won the ice peak from STP and next week I'll be able to give a review of size, etc.
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Without a doubt, the hardest thing of all in a survival situation is to cook without the benefit of seasonings and flavourings. - Ray Mears
Thanks for the help everyone. After much debate I went with a Marmot Sawtooth 15F. It was marked down a good bit at REI to $159, making it a great choice for my price range.
Any criticism or feedback on the Sawtooth would be welcome though.
Down is warmer, compresses more and weighs less. To me a synthetic bag feels like my body warms it. Down feels like an electric blanket. I became convinced when I picked up a down comforter at the thrift store that is real warm.
(Choosing Western Mountaineering is mostly from what Lori has said.)
I sure can't fault your research! I have the Alpinlite (the wide version of the Ultralite), and have been delighted with it for two years now. I have two friends who got the Alpinlite on my recommendation, and after their first trip into 20 degree temps a couple of weeks ago, they're equally delighted. Another buddy has the Ultralight, and he has nothing but good to say about it.
The full down collar (front and back) is one of my favorite features. The two sets of cords (one controls the collar, the other controls the hood area) sometimes are confusing inside the bag in the dark, but one is flat cord and the other is round, so you figure it out pretty quick.
Synthetic is heavy, wears out in a few years of usage (compressing it breaks down the fibers over time), and doesn't compress as well. Down lasts for decades when cared for properly, compresses well, higher fill power compresses better than lower fp and is warmer (given the same weight of the fill). There are times a synthetic makes more sense but since wet synthetic is a miserable thing (it stays more dry only if you are thinking in terms of what will work better in a very humid environment, dunk both kinds in water and they will be wet and cold) despite the hype...
I am too cheap and go out too often to do anything but down. Spend once, live warm.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Washington State, King County
I've carried that exact bag (WM Ultralite) on a lot of trips and have slept a lot of nights in it, perhaps 200 nights overall, and it's a wonderful bag. I've just recently sent mine back to WM to get refilled, and overstuffed in fact a bit. Not that it isn't durable; I think that's a reasonable thing to have to do to any down bag after 4000 miles or so of use.
I've used it down into the teens with puffy clothes inside to beef up the overall temp rating. I've slept with it many a night fully unzipped in sort of "comforter" mode.
I'm not saying that it's the only good choice (!), but it certainly is a fine choice.
The one thing that I suggest w.r.t. down bags is to consider getting one of those "ultralight" dry bags, and size it up. I.e., get a light dry bag that's a bit bigger than needed for your sleeping bag (just look at the stated volume in cc or liters for the provided stuff sack and increase that some). Doing this allows me to compact the bag a bit less when my backpack isn't filled to the brim, yet with the dry bag approach I can just roll it further down to decrease the volume at need.
Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
No matter what the insulation, you have to keep it dry! A soggy synthetic bag is no warmer than a soggy down bag (been there, done that, posted the story here several times, as those of you who've been around here longer know).
With a down bag you do have to be a bit more careful protecting the insulation from your body moisture and from condensation inside your shelter or bivy. Especially when it gets below freezing, your body moisture may condense or even freeze on the inside of the outer shell, which means the moisture will be in the down. That's where a vapor barrier comes in handy. Just don't wear anything more than a base layer inside the vapor barrier--your puffy jacket, etc., needs to be outside.
Re the Western Mountaineering Ultralite--I have one and love it! I especially love the draft collar, which I can snug up around my neck while leaving the hood a little more open for ventilation. However, the Ultralite is a pretty narrow bag. Check the girth measurements of the bag (on the WM website) against your own (measure shoulder girth over your arms and with your insulating jacket on). It may be that you'll need the wider version of the 20* bag, the Alpinelite. While you don't want a lot of dead air space to warm up inside the bag, you do want to be able to wear all your insulation inside the bag without compressing the down!
Edited by OregonMouse (12/22/1112:47 PM)
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey
Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Well I admire you for your number 1 criteria.
I read up a lot on down bags over the past few weeks and it seems that the Western Mountaineering bags were consistently what everything else was compared to. The "Gold Standard" if you will.
If you can swing it, I don't see how you can do any better. I sure want to hear what you think about whatever you get though.
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