Almost Over the Hill Hikers
  • Over the Hill Hikers [Hardcover]
  • Almost Over the Hill Hikers

    Amazon.com
    Backpacking Forums
    BackcountryGear.com
    backcountry gear

    ---- Our Gear Store ----
    The Lightweight Gear Store
     
     ULTRA-LIGHT 

    Ultralight Backpacks
    Ultralight Bivy Sacks
    Ultralight Shelters
    Ultralight Tarps
    Ultralight Tents
    Ultralight Raingear
    Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
    Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
    Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
    Ultralight Apparel


    the Titanium Page
    WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

     CAMPING & HIKING 

    Backpacks
    Tents
    Sleeping Bags
    Hydration
    Kitchen
    Accessories

     CLIMBING 

    Ropes & Cordage
    Protection & Hardware
    Carabiners & Quickdraws
    Climbing Packs & Bags
    Big Wall
    Rescue & Industrial

     MEN'S APPAREL 

    Jackets
    Shirts
    Baselayer
    Headwear
    Gloves
    Accessories

     WOMEN'S APPAREL 

    Jackets
    Shirts
    Baselayer
    Headwear
    Gloves
    Accessories

     FOOTWEAR 

    Men's Footwear
    Women's Footwear

     CLEARANCE 

    Backpacks
    Mens Apparel
    Womens Apparel
    Climbing
    Footwear
    Accessories

     BRANDS 

    Black Diamond
    Granite Gear
    La Sportiva
    Osprey
    Smartwool

     WAYS TO SHOP 

    Sale
    Clearance
    Top Brands
    All Brands

     Backpacking Equipment 

    Shelters
    BackPacks
    Sleeping Bags
    Water Treatment
    Kitchen
    Hydration
    Climbing


     Backcountry Gear Clearance


     WINTER CAMPING 

    Shelters
    Bivy Bags
    Sleeping Bags
    Sleeping Pads
    Snow Sports
    Winter Kitchen

     SNOWSPORTS 

    Snowshoes
    Avalanche Gear
    Skins
    Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
    Accessories

    Stay Healthy--Eat Well

    MARY JANES FARM ORGANIC MEALS

    Mary Janes Farm Organic Backcountry Meals

    NATURAL HIGH GOURMET MEALS

    Natural High

     

    Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
    Topic Options
    Rate This Topic
    #144241 - 01/01/11 11:02 PM Getting too old for this c__p
    hikerduane Offline
    member

    Registered: 02/23/03
    Posts: 2123
    Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
    I was invited for a New Year's Eve snowshoe bp trip in the Lake Tahoe area by a 25 year younger guy who I have done a few trips with. His two roommates could not make it Friday, but made it today. Anyway, I have only been into Echo Lakes once before from Echo Pass area, over Memorial Day weekend, 5 years ago, so could not remember all the roads. Ended up losing the hour that I got when I was asked if I wanted to leave work an hour early. Heck yeah! Finally got started on the right road and trail 5 minutes before 5:00PM. At 6 or so, I took my pack off to change something and checked my thermometer, 7F I think, no more than 9F. No wonder my whiskers were coating up. My hands did good, I had to take my Dachstein gloves off a few times to cool them down. Never found my friend that night. I bped in 3.5 miles looks like at 7500', made camp at 7:30, 15F, eating dinner at 8:30 after melting snow, in bed at 9:40. I was tired, he found me this morning, we had camped a few hundred yards apart he said. Due to the snow overnight when little accumulation was to happen, we hiked out this morning. The Snow Park was not plowed which was my biggest worry. His roommates radioed this morning when we were over half way out. We met them almost at the cars, they asked him if he was going to go back, he may have went part way back to camp with them, but he was tired too. I'll find out later. Must say, it was tough, really tired this AM coming out. I had some tracks going in to follow, but it was still hard. I followed one set of tracks up a hill about 7:00PM, they kept going up, that took it out of me, so I went back down and across Upper Echo lake. I told him next time we go in together. He thought it would be easy for me to follow his tracks, but he went in mid day and other people had made tracks later. Too much worry to know if you are going where someone else went with all the tracks. He said about 5:30PM he shone his light a little for me to see, I told him I was going to start about 5, how far would I have been? Glad to be back home, by the woodstove. Eating ice cream.:)

    Top
    #144242 - 01/01/11 11:24 PM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: hikerduane]
    wandering_daisy Offline
    member

    Registered: 01/11/06
    Posts: 2742
    Loc: California
    I have my own rules about winter backpacking. I would not even consider going out without committment to stick together. It has nothing to do with age - if I asked someone 20 years my senior to go with me, I would do whatever necessary to allow them to keep up; if I were to ask someone 20 years my junior, I would expect them to slow down and go my pace. We would have a meeting spot at the parking lot and stay put until everyonen showed up. I do not think you are too old- I think you went with the wrong people.

    Top
    #144245 - 01/02/11 02:04 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: wandering_daisy]
    hikerduane Offline
    member

    Registered: 02/23/03
    Posts: 2123
    Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
    He respects the fact that I have a lot of years under my belt, age wise and experience wise, I don't know it all by far, so trips like this are another story to be told later. Forgot to mention, when I took my pack off and checked the temperature, that was when I got my BD Ion headlamp that uses an expensive battery out as I could see the tracks in the snow, but not for good footing. He's very good at finding new trailheads, I told him we need to go in together next time, as he said he was going to camp along the trail this trip. A lot of trail. The tracks across Lower Echo Lake had completely filled in from the new, blowing snow by this morning. He wanted to go out over the trail that we came in on, you could not see it. I persuaded him to cross the lake, close to shore part way, I told him others the day before had crossed it with a canoe they were dragging across the surface, loaded with beer according to some xc skiers who crossed too. I think part of the old bit is doing this so late, at night, in the winter with no one around.


    Edited by hikerduane (01/02/11 02:06 AM)
    Edit Reason: misspelled word

    Top
    #144249 - 01/02/11 09:37 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: hikerduane]
    balzaccom Offline
    member

    Registered: 04/06/09
    Posts: 1719
    Loc: Napa, CA
    I agree with Daisy. YOu went with the wrong people. Decisions (and the decision making process) should be a mutually acceptable and joint venture...And hiking in the woods in winter should be something you do together, not simultaneously in more or less the same area.

    Find soembody who wants to hike with you, instead of just wanting to hike near you.
    _________________________
    balzaccom

    check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

    Top
    #144250 - 01/02/11 11:55 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: wandering_daisy]
    phat Offline
    Moderator

    Registered: 06/24/07
    Posts: 4107
    Loc: Alberta, Canada
    Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
    I have my own rules about winter backpacking. I would not even consider going out without committment to stick together. It has nothing to do with age - if I asked someone 20 years my senior to go with me, I would do whatever necessary to allow them to keep up; if I were to ask someone 20 years my junior, I would expect them to slow down and go my pace. We would have a meeting spot at the parking lot and stay put until everyonen showed up. I do not think you are too old- I think you went with the wrong people.


    Amen to that aimless.. you're not to old - you just went with people who are essentialy "doing their own thing" but expecting you to find them. A huge recepie for stress. Something I definately won't do anymore, having been a willing or unwilling participant in such FUMTU's a few times.

    Convince them to stay with you next time, or Go solo, where you're not worrying about someone else.
    _________________________
    Any fool can be uncomfortable...
    My 3 season gear list
    Winter list.
    Browse my pictures


    Top
    #144255 - 01/02/11 02:35 PM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: phat]
    skcreidc Offline
    member

    Registered: 08/16/10
    Posts: 1590
    Loc: San Diego CA
    Underline and exclamation point on that amen. There is a certain expectation in being part of a "group" otherwise what's the point. My advice is to get it out in the open before the trip. Otherwise, just make a loose commitment to meet at some spot on the map. Just drive separately. As long as everyone knows what to expect (and is reliable and proficient in the back country) it can work out pretty well. I'm generally pretty mellow; not really into telling people what to do. But make me go looking for you for an hour or two, and then I find you lounging at a creek (and not dying) when you are supposed to be somewhere else; you are going to meet pop-a-vein.

    My worst experience was with scuba. We are doing a beach dive in the tropics and Howard comes up to me and asks do I want to partner with him. He is part of the marine group and these guys dive basically alone all the time. I did not really register this and said sure. We hop in the water and in two minutes he is GONE. I didn't see him again till I got out of the water. Lucky this was a shallow dive. Still had a good dive but......never again with Howard as a "partner".

    Not that you need this advice...I just been gone for a while and felt like commenting on something!


    Edited by skcreidc (01/02/11 02:40 PM)

    Top
    #144256 - 01/02/11 02:42 PM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: phat]
    aimless Offline
    Moderator

    Registered: 02/05/03
    Posts: 2838
    Loc: Portland, OR
    Amen to that aimless..

    I can't take any credit. Wandering daisy made the point, not me. shocked

    Top
    #144259 - 01/02/11 04:56 PM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: skcreidc]
    hikerduane Offline
    member

    Registered: 02/23/03
    Posts: 2123
    Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
    I knew he was going in ahead of me, after starting, I started thinking it was going to be tough, would he make it as far as he said, otherwise, I may have taken the short way across the lakes. Also thinking, if I went across the lakes, would he be camped along the trail and I would miss him. Some stress at this point. My one disappointment was he only came back on the trail a very short ways before he turned his headlamp on, way before I was to be expected. I think he forgot that part. Conditions sure dictated plans for this trip. Funny, on a trip over the 4th of July weekend, he was the stronger hiker the first day, but not by much. The second day which turned out to be our last day, I'm standing with my pack on still during "breaks", while he has his pack off, laying on the ground saying how tired he was. We had a long lunch, he's laying down yet again, I'm checking out the wet area by our stop, looking at the plants and holes where some little critter that lives in such conditions. He's good to go with, better than solo at times. There is an older guy who goes with us, we all get along pretty good. All three of us have done a couple trips together, this young guy I have done four trips with him now maybe.

    Top
    #144269 - 01/03/11 01:13 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: hikerduane]
    skcreidc Offline
    member

    Registered: 08/16/10
    Posts: 1590
    Loc: San Diego CA
    Snow can be so tricky. I know you and others who frequent this site have more experience than me in snow, but it can really mess with you. Conditions are highly variable and the terrain can really get messed up visually; you know where you are but can't quite pin down something you are looking for. And when you are 2 separate parties, you can each be second guessing each other. I am not a gps guy in general. However, I can really see the benefit to having a good unit in the snow. You can set up primary meeting coordinates as well as backup spots in advance. I'm thinking at least 3 for unsure weather and 2 for nice weather.

    BTW, sounds like you are doing fine to me. It's just that this trip stressed you out a bit. Just means you are a reliable partner.

    sk

    Top
    #144271 - 01/03/11 05:27 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: skcreidc]
    hikerduane Offline
    member

    Registered: 02/23/03
    Posts: 2123
    Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
    A GPS? I don't even own a compass. smile Wasn't stressing as much as how much further was I going to have to go and how close would I be if I only hiked so many hours. I think like you said, second guessing each other was the biggest concern. He thinking I would be able to go as far and me wondering if he made it "X" amount of distance. In Lassen Park, I have had to catch up to folks who went in the day before over the snow, but caught up to them just as they were leaving their camp, that was cut and dried as we were only on the main road thru the Park. Off to work.

    Top
    #144364 - 01/04/11 12:19 PM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: hikerduane]
    skcreidc Offline
    member

    Registered: 08/16/10
    Posts: 1590
    Loc: San Diego CA
    I am thinking the answer to this whole thing is getting into dog sledding. If you like dogs, it seems a natural fit. A while back, finallyME's posts got me into looking at dog sledding sites and there are actually teams that include shorter haired dogs in Minnesota. They put jackets on them. And the benifits: no more carrying stuff in winter; and with 3 to 7 dogs you will never be alone. Of course there is a very pesky learning curve. And for me, San Diego is not much of a dog sledding center. 2" of snow in the Lagunas yesterday, gone today. Hmmm

    sk


    Top
    #144370 - 01/04/11 01:14 PM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: skcreidc]
    Heather-ak Offline
    member

    Registered: 07/11/10
    Posts: 597
    Loc: Fairbanks, AK
    Even here in Alaska most sled dogs are short hairs. They are smaller dogs with _long_ legs.

    You could instead use a kick-bike - they make a dirt bike type that could take trail pretty well.

    Or get a larger dog and have them carry a pack.

    Or they could pull a cart.

    (Pictures are of course mandatory if you do any of the above ;))

    Heather

    Top
    #144423 - 01/04/11 08:18 PM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: Heather-ak]
    hikerduane Offline
    member

    Registered: 02/23/03
    Posts: 2123
    Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
    On our AK trip a year ago, we stopped at some retired teachers house outside Wrangell, they used to teach in Fairbanks, she was deaf and ran sled dogs. They had invited the group to stop in for lunch when we passed thru as they had met the trip organizer thru a forum where he had asked a question about the area. When Pooch was alive, I did some snow camping with him, had to bring some beer flats for his ground insulation, but now I see a short regular pad would be better. We did a few snowmobile camping trips too, that way we could get further in, he would ride in my lap, but when I stopped, get outta his way, he wanted off that thing! When I had my two Dobies, I had considered using them, but the female may not have wanted to do that, her dad would have been gungho.

    Top
    #144494 - 01/06/11 12:26 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: hikerduane]
    OttoStover Offline
    member

    Registered: 08/30/08
    Posts: 62
    Loc: Norway
    Originally Posted By hikerduane
    A GPS? I don't even own a compass. smile

    Serious? Here the use of at least compass is regarded as mandatory for a hike in the mountains. We call it "fjellvettreglene" or the mountain code for safe travelling in the backcountry. http://www.turistforeningen.no/english/article.php?ar_id=7090&fo_id=3622

    Top
    #144496 - 01/06/11 12:55 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: OttoStover]
    skcreidc Offline
    member

    Registered: 08/16/10
    Posts: 1590
    Loc: San Diego CA
    Otto! Fjellvettreglene? I had trouble with farfigneuton or whatever it was (VW adds). You got to put the phonetic pronunciation after it to at least give us a chance to not butcher it. grin

    sk

    Top
    #144510 - 01/06/11 04:13 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: skcreidc]
    oldranger Offline
    member

    Registered: 02/23/07
    Posts: 1735
    Loc: California (southern)
    No sweat! It's that volcano in Iceland!

    Top
    #144511 - 01/06/11 04:18 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: hikerduane]
    ChinaAdventure Offline
    newbie

    Registered: 12/29/10
    Posts: 6
    I think if you want to have a hike, you must find a good partner, who has rich experiences in hiking. In that way, you won't worry for other things.

    Top
    #144512 - 01/06/11 04:20 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: OttoStover]
    oldranger Offline
    member

    Registered: 02/23/07
    Posts: 1735
    Loc: California (southern)
    I can understand where hikerduane is coming from. In the western US, the terrain is rugged and the visibility if usually good enough that you can orient yourself by terrain features. I rarely use mine, but I carry it out of habit.

    Top
    #144516 - 01/06/11 08:30 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: ChinaAdventure]
    Glenn Offline
    member

    Registered: 03/08/06
    Posts: 2617
    Loc: Ohio
    An experienced partner helps, but remember that the partner was also inexperienced once. The trick is to figure out whether the partner has twenty years of experience, or one year of experience twenty times.

    Experience is just another word for learning. You can shorten the learning time by reading books by experienced persons, and applying that knowledge. You should then modify the knowledge based on your own experience, and you will discover what works best for you.


    Top
    #144518 - 01/06/11 08:45 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: OttoStover]
    hikerduane Offline
    member

    Registered: 02/23/03
    Posts: 2123
    Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
    Most but not all of my travel is over trails. Any issues can be resolved by hiking longer and kicking oneself in the butt. You can also go by the map, checking off features as you come to them. Where we were in AK, just follow the contour and drainages as we went, we had a great view as the bush pilot flew us in one at a time over open country. I can see where compass use would be needed where it is heavily forested, I have had limited training with a compass, in a class at the local community college, on the survival weekend, our instructor gave us a compass and a degree to follow, no problem, aim at a tree in your line, go to it, repeat. Luckily the small team I was on, they had experience, so I gave it a try. Cool.

    Top
    #144571 - 01/07/11 12:04 PM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: OttoStover]
    ringtail Offline
    member

    Registered: 08/22/02
    Posts: 2296
    Loc: Colorado Rockies
    Otto,

    There is a reason why Scandinavians are successful in orienteering competitions. grin

    I guess that less than half of US households even have a compass.
    _________________________
    "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."
    Yogi Berra

    Top
    #144585 - 01/07/11 11:44 PM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: oldranger]
    lori Offline
    member

    Registered: 01/22/08
    Posts: 2801
    Originally Posted By oldranger
    I can understand where hikerduane is coming from. In the western US, the terrain is rugged and the visibility if usually good enough that you can orient yourself by terrain features. I rarely use mine, but I carry it out of habit.


    I carry mine all the time. Once we cut cross country to hit another trail in an area that's fairly straightforward - I could just barely see a prominent peak and kept it over my left shoulder as we wandered along through meadows, across bogs, creeks, deadfall, through blueberry thickets... every so often we stopped to check bearings. Unbeknownst to me this was making some of the non-orienteering members of the group nervous. They thought we were lost and trying to find our way.

    I've also had occasion to map/compass to determine which trail is which at a junction. Signs vanish sometimes. While one can generally orient by the sun, sometimes it's cloudy....
    _________________________
    "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

    http://hikeandbackpack.com

    Top
    #144591 - 01/08/11 08:47 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: lori]
    oldranger Offline
    member

    Registered: 02/23/07
    Posts: 1735
    Loc: California (southern)
    Originally Posted By lori

    I've also had occasion to map/compass to determine which trail is which at a junction. Signs vanish sometimes. While one can generally orient by the sun, sometimes it's cloudy....


    Precisely. Every time I have used my compass in the mountains in the last twenty years or so, it has been in the clouds or fog.

    Top
    #144596 - 01/08/11 10:57 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: oldranger]
    hikerduane Offline
    member

    Registered: 02/23/03
    Posts: 2123
    Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
    One weekend trip into the Caribou Wilderness which is next to Lassen Volcanic NP here in N CA. I had hiked up to a small plateau if you will, a prominent feature close to camp. I had not been up there very long before a low cloud or bit of fog rolled in and due to not being up there before, suddenly realized I had to figure out where I had come from and where I was going to go down at. No panic but oh s__t!. Once down, I could orient myself. Yes, a compass would have been handy, but would I have brought it on a local trip?

    Top
    #144617 - 01/09/11 05:55 AM Re: Getting too old for this c__p [Re: hikerduane]
    oldranger Offline
    member

    Registered: 02/23/07
    Posts: 1735
    Loc: California (southern)
    One reason I habitually carry a compasss comes from an event in my misspent youth. Somehow, we obtained a Forest Service master key, which I kept on the lanyard of my compass. You talk about multipurpose, lightweight outdoor gear! In brass, it weighed about 1.5 oz - should have had it made in titanium.

    We did indeed use it several times, but carefully. Open the cabin, use it, and then clean and tidy up, leaving fresh kindling next to the stove when we left - a different world back then (1950s).

    Top
    Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

    Shout Box

    Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
     
    Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
     
    Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
    Bivvy Sack combo Arrangement
    by Jim M
    10/18/17 01:58 AM
    what is the lightest framed backpack around 40L
    by toddfw2003
    10/16/17 07:23 PM
    a worthy challenger to the msr pocket rocket2
    by the-gr8t-waldo
    10/16/17 01:28 PM
    Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
    Backpacking/Camping Near Savannah, GA
    by Sean&Brit
    08:27 PM
    Napa Fires
    by balzaccom
    10/11/17 07:43 PM
    Backpacking the Ouachita Trail thanksgiving
    by toddfw2003
    10/05/17 11:54 PM
    Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
    lightest grommets to use
    by toddfw2003
    06:13 PM
    alcohol stove comparisons
    by Bike_packer
    10/03/17 08:56 PM
    Can footprint plasticizer harm tent ground-sheet?
    by Weston1000
    09/10/17 02:24 AM
    Featured Photos
    Breakneck Ridge, New York
    May 2012 Eclipse, Lassen Park
    New Years Eve 2011
    Trip Report with Photos
    Seven Devils, Idaho
    Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
    Dark Canyon - Utah
    Who's Online
    0 registered (), 32 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Sean&Brit, Blackbuzzard, LivelyLiz, Weve, Tones21
    12425 Registered Users
    Forum Links
    Disclaimer
    Policies
    Site Links
    HOME
    Backpacking.net
    Family Hiking
    Lightweight Gear Store
    Backpacking Book Store
    Lightweight Zone
    Hiking Essentials

    Outdoor Gear Daily Deals
    Outlets, Sales, Bargains

    Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

    Backcountry Forum
     
     

    Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
    Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum.com