Anybody hear of these guys??

http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/

Looking at them as a competitor to TarpTent as I look to drop my weight for my tent. Positive and negative opinions needed.

Goal will eventually be for me to be carrying tentage for 4 people (me +3 kids between 6 and 10).

Looking at either two two man tents or one 4 man tent.

Background:

First kid (at 6) started this year, and kid number two joins next year. Kid 3 doesn't join the crew for another 3-4 years, but leaving her behind will get harder with the older two going.

Note that I will be carrying all the sleeping gear, cooking gear, etc as well - light MATTERS or this won't work.

I've got the Refuge (no longer offered) and tried out the Lunar Duo briefly. I just used the Refuge last week and though it is very light (26 oz) and roomy (2 persons, lots of headroom) it is pretty difficult to get a tight pitch. So much so that a moderate (not heavy) wind blew down one of the poles a couple of times before we weighed it down with a big rock. This seems to be a design issue that is probably the reason it's no longer offered. Also the netting on the sides tends to end up laying on the ground rather than vertically as intended.

The Lunar Duo is very roomy, with a huge footprint. Also had a bit of trouble getting a good pitch, though I did not spend a lot of time with it, and it struck me as not being as well sewn/designed as the Tarptents. Places where the poles went looked like they would tear out fairly quickly.

I think if I were you I'd go for the 4-man tarptent (Hogback - weight 64 oz), unless you don't want all four of you in one tent. If two tents, then you have a lot of options. We also have a Cloudburst, which has been pretty good but not enough vertical headroom for me. The Squall may be better for that, or another tarptent, or one of the newer Six Moon Designs (Haven).

Ron Moak and Henry Shires are both very committed to customer service. I have a slight leaning towards the Tarptents in terms of construction and durability, though I do like some of the ideas Ron has been playing with lately.

I don't have any relevant experience with taking kids that young out; I waited until my own nieces and nephews were about 10 - at that point, I carried the tent and cookset, and they carried their own sleeping gear, personal eating gear, etc.

However, I have read and heard from others that, even with very young kids, you want to let them carry a small pack with a bit of weight in in - perhaps a kid-size backpack or a decent daypack with a hipbelt, in which they carry a pint water bottle, a day's worth of snacks, a poncho, their sleeping bag/pad, and maybe a stuffed toy - say, 5 or 6 pounds of stuff. It makes them feel like part of the adventure to carry part of the load.

Or so I've been told.

Why are you carrying everything? My 7yo packs his sleeping bag and his tent (don't ask) and water. He started packing his bag and water when he was 5 and got rather indignant when he was not allowed to carry more.

I had a Six Moon Designs Lunar Solo(e) for two summers. It was a nice little tent, but had several problems. First, it was too small for me and my 80-lb. dog--OK when we were in it only to sleep, but not when we were confined to the tent for most of the late afternoon and early evening by rain. That, of course, was not the tent's fault! Second, it had a lot more condensation inside than my Tarptents (Squall 2 and Rainshadow). It had a good test one year on Washingon's Olympic coast with the inevitable fog and light drizzle. (My dog wasn't with me.) The Tarptent Rainshadow with my son and two older grandkids inside had no internal condensation at all. The Lunar Solo, on the other hand, was dripping inside. It just isn't as well ventilated! The wide "skirts" of the Lunar Solo, while very effective in fending off horizontal rain (aka Colorado cloudbursts), seem to funnel moisture evaporating from the ground into the tent. I could see condensation on the inside of the "skirt," outside the screened wall, before it started forming inside the tent. This was especially a problem if the tent was on grass or on damp ground.

Phat bought my Lunar Solo and, last I heard, is happy with it.

The only lightweight 4-person tent around is the Tarptent Hogback. Or you could use two 2-person tents (lots easier to find a site for two smaller tents than one large one), in which case I'd recommend the Tarptent Squall 2. While the kids are smaller, you could probably all fit into the three-person Tarptent Rainshadow.

After a number of experiences taking out my grandkids (ages 5-10), I would never, never want to take all three of them together if I were the only adult along! It's just too easy for one of them to disappear when my attention is otherwise engaged with camp chores. Can you enlist another adult?

Do remember that the kids can carry more as they grow older. On a trip a couple of weeks ago, my 10-year-old grandson carried his clothing, snacks for a 4-day trip, water bottle, sleeping bag, pad, and the poles and stakes for the Tarptent Rainshadow. Even a 5-6-year-old can carry clothing, snacks and water bottle.

Have you seen this excellent article by Penny S. at Hiking with Kids on the home page of this site?

Thank you for the awesome advice. I'm going to go and (re?) read that article.

My oldest carried a daypack on her first adventure with me - water, raingear, gorp, a small toy, socks and a whistle. Rest assured she'll get more gear as she gets bigger.

I'm considering both the Hogback and a combination of two person tents. Still interested in relative advice between the options...

Regarding two-person tents: if there are 4 of you, and you're the only adult, 2 two-person tents will hold you all - but will the kids want to sleep in the woods without you?

On my niece's first and second trips, we stayed in the car campground in two one-person tents, and she was fine (slept right through the raccoon trying to drag the pack out of her tent's vestibule, and my exertions to stop it.) I thought all was well.

For her third trip, I took her into the woods, using the same two tents. About two hours after we went to bed, I heard her start to sob. We ended up sleeping in my one-man tent. The next night, we met up with the rest of our group (including some other kids), and she was fine - and never had any more problems sleeping in the woods.

Don't overestimate your kids' bravery.

Tent brands aside, were I in your shoes I'd be looking at 4-person tents. as others have mentioned, if you are the only adult you may not want to have any kids in a tent on their own until they are older. I have two boys, and a 4-person tent worked well for us, whether my wife was along or not.
If I were shopping now, I'd be looking hard at the Hogback - it is the lightest 4-person tent I know of.
As to what the kids will carry, I definitely believe in having them carry a pack, no matter how light. Mine started at 3 or 4 carrying just their pillows and stuffed animals. At 6 they were carrying their own sleeping bags, and at 8 they could carry all their own stuff - sleeping bag, clothes, miscellaneous. I just had to carry all the food, cooking stuff, and shelter. I find the tricky part is kids packs - most of them are too heavy.

If it were me I also would be looking at the GoLite Shagrila-5.

http://www.golite.com/Product/ProdDetail.aspx?p=370005110&mc=154&t=&lat=

We have a Lunar Duo. It's a fine tent, well designed and well made. The interior volume is amazing. It's a little tricky to pitch well -- I find myself tweaking the position of the tent stakes a few times until it's just right.

I think Tarptent makes a shelter that would be large enough for everyone:

http://www.tarptent.com/hogback.html

This definitely does not apply to my 2P tent. I wouldn't sleep with anyone else but my g/f in my 2P, pretty tight. Marmot Twilight 2P.

kbennett

Does the Lunar Duo two pole configuration (one at the foot, and one at the head) address some of the sag concerns for Tarp Tents that I've seen mentioned on this forum?

Steadman

The sag is caused because silnylon stretches when wet. It has nothing to do with the design or maker of the tent. SMD tents are also made of silnylon. You can usually eliminate the sag by tightening up the tent at bedtime. Some folks substitute bungee cords for the main guyline(s).

Reason I'm asking is that the second pole at the foot of the tent reduces the distance traveled by the lines, and the length of unsupported tent.

"Reason I'm asking is that the second pole at the foot of the tent reduces the distance traveled by the lines, and the length of unsupported tent."

Hmm, not sure how to do this with my Lunar Duo. The two hiking poles support the center of the tent, in the middle. (Here is a photo.)

My method is to tighten up the guylines and stakes just before I go to bed. If, in the middle of the night, I wake up to find some sagging in the main canopy, then I simply adjust the hiking poles to be a few centimeters longer, and that tightens it right up. Easy to do without getting out of my bag. (This has worked for every hiking-pole-supported tarptent-style shelter I've owned.)

I have OM's old lunar solo, and have been very happy with it, My brother also owns one, both have served us very well. I can say good things about SMD.

I also have experience with TarpTent - I've spent a few nights in a Scarp2, and for it's weight, that thing is a palace, you can fit two ENORMOUS guys in that thing with room to spare. I've also slept in a TarpTent Cloudburst - also a nice piece of gear.

any product I've used from either SMD or TarpTent has been very good.

And I see food mentioned the shangri-la - I own a shangri-la 3 - also happy with that - it is my ultralight winter hot tent.

The shangri-la series are a possibility for you, but again I think two smaller tents may serve you better than one big one.

You can always pitch them facing each other right next to each other.

"You can always pitch them facing each other right next to each other."


This was my version of the Double Rainbow. For some odd reason Henry opted for a more conventional design.
(if by any chance anyone is tempted to do it, pull the beak down before going to sleep)
Franco

I own a SMD Gatewood cape plus net tent combo, and like that in certain conditions; I've used my tarptent contrail a whole lot more. I think both are good companies.

I'm currently leaning to swapping to a Lightheart designs tent; if a 2-person tent is big enough for you, you might consider the Lightheart Duo. I have to admit that when I was able to "kick the tires" at Trail Days in Damascus VA in May this year, I focused on the solo version, didn't really look at the duo they had set up, but I expect it's a fine choice too.

And it's another cottage company run by passionate hikers, and from what I could tell really nice folks.