This weekend I waas working on the high peaks of the Adirondacks...nothing too crazy for some of the veterans here, but a very strenous set of steep swithbacks and scrambles...with limited water availability, and alot of energy to burn. Most people do it in a day hike...mind you a long day hike but still.

my coworkwer talked me into breaking it up to make it easier...but what i didn't realize is the difference in my pack. Instead of just a daypack with the minimal basics like tons of water and some bandaids ha, i had my whole setup....including my camera.

What i soon realized is...I may not have the size or strentght to pack into certain places do to the amount of supplies i'd need to bring.

I'm 5'8 about 125 lbs. So even a very trimmed down UL pack of lets say 30 lbs, is a significant load to bear...relatively speaking.

So i was pretty down on myself after nearly killing myself on some of the summits and then having to call it quits for safety reasons. I felt weak and drained and wasn't having FUN. At one point on a ladder with no floor in sight a decent gust of wind grabbed hold of my bag, and if it wasn't for my upper body being in great shape...would have carried me to the bottom of a 1200 foot col. Do others venture out with 30-40% of their bodyweight on their back? If so do you do as strenuous activities?

Despite all my dreams of doing the big bad stuff...i may have to tailor my adventures to more suitable stuff based on my strengths...

Has anyone else had to swallow the difficult pill that some stuff in nature may just be out of reach for them? What did you do to keep in the outdoor life?

I'm now drastically re-planning my trip in september to be a highlight tour of the AT(as much of it as i can) via basecamps and selected day hikes or afternoon jaunts to the scenic highlists the parks have to offer.

I was hoping some of you would call me stupid for eveing getting down on my inability to do some on nature's more intesne items.

I still know i could do the whole thing if packed approaitely.

I'm just getting back into backpacking after a 15+ year layoff. Back in my youth, I just jammed whatever I wanted into my pack and muscled my way through it.

When I started earlier this month, I did a few day hikes up into the first area I wanted to pack. I felt pretty good, so I planned my trip, loaded up and hit the trail with a 40+ pound pack. Bear in mind, I'm not a big guy - 5'6"/150 lbs.

My first day out, I was about halfway to my planned camp site, four miles out. I'd already climbed up and back down one big ridge, and had one more to go. The weather was threatening, and I was in a canyon with no good campsites anywhere near. The heavy load I was carrying was killing me! I admitted to myself that I'd screwed up, turned around, and made the slog back home.

I was about ready to admit defeat; I even told my wife I'd be camping from my Jeep from now on. But as I kept looking at maps of all the great areas around here, I knew day hikes weren't going to get me into the areas where I wanted to go.

I got on the Internet and started to do some research on lightweight/ultralight backpacking. I got out my postal scale, started weighing and sorting, and dropped 20 pounds from my load. I had a great trip next time out; covered over 17 miles of tough mountain terrain over 2 days, and realized less was more as far as my comfort on the trail. My experience at my age is that I have the strength and stamina to carry a big load, but what used to be normal fatigue now becomes pain and misery that detracts from the trip.

The lightweight idea is still new to me. I've ordered a lightweight shelter (TarpTent, 2 pounds vs. 5 pounds for my Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight). After I get the new TarpTent and have an idea of how it packs down, I'll replace my 5 pound pack with one that weighs maybe 2 pounds. I've replaced my white gas stove with an alcohol stove. I'm learning how to carry less water by reading the terrain, filtering and drinking at the streams along the trail, rather than packing a couple of quarts. I'm still picking through every piece of gear in preparation for my next trip.

For me, it's about adaptation to changing circumstances, rather than sticking to fixed idea of what I have to do and how I have to do it. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and all the answers you need can be found right here.

sadly i've spent hundreds on saving weight...short of a new pack idk what else to trim. Have a 1 lb bag, lw pad, tarptent, alcy stove, etc. I think certain treks in my head don't equate to my size and strength where food and water is cconcerned.

At age 74, I've definitely been there, done that!

I found the articles and gear lists on the home page of this site to be really helpful. I was able to cut my total pack weight for a 7-day trip by more than half, without any sacrifice in comfort or safety!

Other things that help--stay fed (munching frequent small snacks rather than big meals during the day) and stay hydrated! I found an electrolyte solution (I use Hydralite which is less sweet than others) a big help in keeping me going throughout the day.

Sometimes it's more important to adjust one's goals downward and "go with the flow." I'm still learning that it's more important to admire the view and smell the flowers than to push for big mileage or elevation gain. Less stress, more peace of mind!

Then how did you get to a 30 lbs bag for a single overnighter?

Of course! I hike mostly desert and several times I've been caught short by heat, lack of water, bonk, blisters, etc. It's all part of the deal. You plan your best and always have a bailout strategy.

Your 30 lb. pack for a one nighter.....why?

30 lbs. does seem excessive for an overnighter unless you're carrying climbing gear. My overnight pack weight is 16-17 lbs., depending on how much water I'm carrying. 30 lbs. for me would be a 12-14 day trip with no resupply.

What is your base weight? Do you have a gear list with weights? There are many of us on this forum who love to critique other people's gear lists--it's easier than finding the "logs" in our own!

I am curious as well as to how you managed to have a 30# pack with the big items you listed. I am also curious as to which peaks and the routes you attempted. The high peaks, while not very high by western standards are, as you stated, a strenuous climb. So my last curiosity is what backpacking you have done in preparation for these climbs. If you were on the ladders, you didn't choose the easier ones for sure.

I'm 51, about 5'9" and 140lbs. I carry about a 30-35lb pack when I head out. But I only plan to do about 3-6 miles per day when I plan my adventures.

I've done some of the toughest trail sections we have here in the Ozarks and a lot more miles off trail. I just plan differently than you. I rarely plan by miles per day, make sure I stop and rest often, and if, for any reason, I don't feel like sticking to my plan, I improvise.

Often times I'll find a really nice spot before I get to my planned destination, and often that's where I'll end up staying. I figure I can come back again and shoot for that original destination next time.

There are many advantages to planning this way in advance. You always know what you're up against to get to the point you've made it, and what it will take to get back. If it's a really nice spot you get to really enjoy it, and you get to know the general area around it a lot better.

But the main thing is too enjoy it.

Simply put, focus more on the leisure time for your hikes, and less on the struggle to get to your spot. These are really the too main reasons for backpacking. Keep them in balance when you plan.

Think about the balance mentioned above in in terms of your "Limits". By limiting how far and fast you will go, you open up the possibilities of how long you can spend at a quality spot.

That said, experience helps when someone else has a plan they want you to join in on. I don't hesitate anymore to say "No, I can't make that trip" and to offer some alternatives.

Earlier this year I had to say no to someone that wanted to hike a 2 mile long trail up a 900 ft tall Ozark Mountain and then keep going for another 12 miles that day. I told them I couldn't make that hike. That I would be too slow and not even able to keep up with them. They had planned over 14 days of that pace and I wanted to meet them about half way into their trip. While discussing it, I gently urged them to slow down and plan for less miles per day. They declined, but did adjust their plans to meet up with me anyway, which I really appreciated.

But, as it turned out, they didn't make it that far. One of them got injured before they got to that point on the trail and had to go back home.

I admire those who've done the "5 highest peaks in North America", but I will still argue that I've had just as much fun, and probably even more fun, on most of my trips.

So, I suggest you simply adjust your plans. For someone your size and weight, I think a 30lb pack should keep you supplied for at about a week if you conserve and pack wisely. Clothes, food, and water are the heaviest things you'll be packing. Reuse cloths. It doesn't matter if you come out grimy. Filter water at every opportunity and always keep what you're packing topped off. Pack lightweight nutritious foods, and don't be wasteful with any of it. Dehydrated food is the way to go for your main meals.

This is important too: Where you're hiking makes a huge difference in how many miles you can expect to make, so plan accordingly.

I've hiked hundreds of miles of Sequoia NP and NF trails but it would be a pretty big mistake to think that I could do the same number of miles per day on the Highlands Trail, or the Buffalo River Trail, here in the Ozarks. They're just not the same kind of miles. If you do an "Elevation Profile" on sections of these trails you'll see what I mean. If you hike them you'll know first hand and realize that even elevation profiles don't tell the whole story.

To really put this into perspective, read the "Journals Lewis and Clark", or about the first crossings of the Panama isthmus. There were days when making a mile or two was the hardest work they ever had to do. The days they did double digits of miles were generally considered quite easy by comparison.

These guys blazed trails for the first time. They went places even the indigen didn't go, so accounts of their adventures are a good reference point for us all to consider. Miles per day must always be crossed referenced with terrain and weather conditions.

Now, I'll tell you, after reading about their adventures I feel pretty darn good after bushwhacking through 4 miles of Ozark forests and finding a really good spot to spend a few days.

The thing to remember is, they HAD to keep moving on, but we don't

it was a planned 3 dayer...i must have left that out sorry..

but i had 6 liters of water on me to start do to the fact that the next water source was over 15 miles away, and my partner had no filter of his own.

i don't have weights but here is the gear i had

TNF Primero pack - 4+lbs I know i know
Kelty Year one bag - 1lb
BA insulated Air Core
Trail Designs Caldera Kitchen, AGG 3 cup pot, penny stove, pot gripper, soaker, 12 oz fuel
my rain jacket
backup undies and inuslated underarmour shirt
E620 Olympus camera - you won't talk me out of this
small tripod
adventurer UL first aid kid
a titantium spork
some misc para cord
a few batteries
and food...i'm pretty sure the food was the problem we were eatling in luxury

but it boils down to my OP in that maybe i won't enjoy stuff with too much weight, and i won't ejoy it without certain items either...

Well the water explains the weight. Not sure why you believed that the closest water would be 15 miles away. The adks are my "backyard" and I rarely carry over a liter at a time as water is so abundant. Then again, it depends on the route you took. It is possibly to purposely avoid water, but even so it is close by. I'd like to see the map. Which peaks via which trails?

wow, six liters of water converts into 13.2 pounds!

I would be interested in hearing about your fitness regimen. From the description of the way you faded during the day, there is a likelihood that you need to work harder on your aerobic fitness. You need to be honest with yourself here but, from what I read, it sounds to me as though you were simply out of shape. You can change that.

Working out during the week by walking, jogging and/or cycling can help you to develop reserves of strength. One hour per day at 60-70% of your maximum heart rate should have you charging up those switchbacks. Squats and lunges will strengthen your legs.

I routinely start a longer trip with over 30 pounds in my pack and frequently have to climb 4500'or more over a pass the first day; I'm in my mid-70's. I hiked the JMT summer before last, the first part of the trail was with a young woman whose first resupply was to be at Vermilion Valley Ranch. Her pack weighed 35 pounds the first day and she weighed 98 pounds that same day. We climbed over 4500' out of Yosemite Valley that day and she held up just fine. She completed the trip three days before I did.

Smaller people simply have to carry a larger percentage of their body weight, especially if they solo. I have accepted this fact long ago. Prince Charming is not going to save me! I am 61, weigh 115 pounds and my starting weight often is 40 pounds because I like to take long trips - 60-100 miles and 10-12 days. Thank goodness, most of the weight is food so the pack lightens every day! I travel over some fairly difficult off-trail terrain too.

How to handle this? 1) Good planning - I really try to stay on trails the first few days and do the more difficult travel near the end of the trip. 2) Slow down and really pay attention to tecnniques. 3) trekking poles, 4) pay very close attention to the weight distribution when packing your gear- makes a huge difference, 5) perfect the "rest step", 5) I carry a 30-foot parachute cord at all times so if need be I can lower my pack and scramble down 3rd class rock, 6) make an effort off-season to really stay in shape. As others have stated, water is really heavy. I just do not hike in areas where I would have to carry lots of water. I usually only carry half a liter of water if any in my pack. Crossing streams, particulary crossing logs, is difficult when you carry a large percentage of body weight - so in this case I break the load into two or three loads and tediously cross several times. Where there is a problem, there usually is a solution if you think hard enough.

Also, I put it in perspective. WHen I backpacked in the late 60's I carried 60 pounds regularly. Our gear back then was HEAVY! In comparison, I have little to complain about nowadays.

I'd add one more note, about pacing. It is easy to work hard enough right up front to put your body at a deficit in terms of both nutrition and hydration---in short, to deplete your batteries. Once you do that, you have to stop, rest, and reload. And over time you will learn to start at a slower pace.

Watch the guys in the Tour de France. They expend 5,000 calories in four hours---but they don't start at a sprint...because they know they can't keep it up.

Start slow, and keep drinking and eating as you go, and you will find your are able to reach more of those place.

Ditto on the water strategy. I've figured out I can guzzle down a couple of quarts in the morning before I hit the trail. Where there's water along the trail, I stop, filter and drink it there. I'd rather carry it in my belly than in my pack. I stopped carrying a drink bottle - I've found I hydrate better if I tank up once or twice a day, rather than sipping constantly from a bottle.

If I don't expect to find any along the way during the day, I'll carry a quart in my pack. Most places I'm packing at, I expect to find more water by the end of the day. The exception may be if I'm out in the Utah red rock canyon country/desert, but even there, water can be found in the canyon bottoms in a lot of places, if you do your homework ahead of time. And if I'm traveling there, I'm carrying less cold weather gear, so I can carry more water if need be.

idk what my problem was then...
we were doing the high peaks roostercomb to marcy...the map i had listed 2 streams...one near haystack one right after roostercomb where i got my 6 liters

i hear everyone on the pace, and will be making changes to my style...going to go to more of a basecamp situation with daypacking options for the peaks i intend to climb.

Granted i hiked about 9 miles with the heavy pack...it wasn't fun but i did it

I'm concerned about stuff like ladders and thin ridges...one little gust and the pack weight will throw off my balance and take me to canyon floor

as far as being in shape is concerend...i like to think i'm in great shape

i'm 27 5'8 about 127 lbs, lift daily, run daily 3+ miles, and hike, canoe, and kayak every sunny day i can...and in the winter i just hike

i did recently quit smoking cigarettes but have been really beating my lungs back into shape...i play entire full court basketball and soccer games without issues

i'm thinking the main prob was lack of sleep barely getting more than 3 hours for the past 3 weeks now and the water and food

food was - 6 bagels, 6 cliff builder bars, 6 GU electrolye things, 6 constant comment tea bags and 2 sugar packets per, various mustard, s n p, mayo packets, 4 tubs jiffy PB to go, 3 grilled chicken breasts, 4 slices roasted turkey, 4 hotdogs 4 buns, 1packet albcaroe tuna, 1 slice foil wrapped spam, 2 cups brown rice, 1 package velveeta shells n cheese, 3 packs of jack links 100 calorie beef jerky, 2 bags m n ms, 6 dum dum lollipops, ziploc of almonds, ziploc of cashews, 4 packets carnation instant breakfest


yes its alot i was going with a newbie who did not pack any food...i was also fearful of the hike not in that it was tough but that it was going to burn through my energy


and about me...i have a ridiculous metabolism...probably world record breaking - not to be graphic but i'll be seeing my breakfast this evening - i'm quite regular and my body works fast!!!

I'm sure i could handle a 60 lb pack for long treks...but depending on the terrain it wouldn't be safe

and again...i don't think i'd enjoy some stuff if i need to brutalize myself and slip back into military pysche to push myself through it...i'd rather go with a simple camelbak and a builders bar, and my poles over a mountain like marcy then lug my pak again

Well, we have disposed of the "out of shape hypothesis". I suspect that you may have just had a bad day.

i hope you are right Pika...the more i think about it, which is all i seem to be doing lately, waas a combination of things

not going in well rested or getting enough rest during...not packing right, and or some other pyschosamatic reason is probably what led to my meltdown...

the silver lining of it all is it got me to realize that just because my little machine body can do something...is it worth it to me?

Sure i could have brutalized my mind and body and gone furhter and higher, but what fun would that be?

so although i had to swallow that painful pill of my abilities....i'm sort of looking forward to my new direction of outdoor life which will maximize my enjoyment

Mark,

There are many different types of being in shape and climbing the peaks is a different one. You use different muscles etc... That coupled with the seriously aggressive route you chose and the massive amount of water would make most people crumble. I had suspected that the route you chose was a difficult one, and it was. You had over 8000' of elevation gain over those 10 miles, with slightly less than 4000' lost (which was uphill on the way back). Knowing the terrain, that is not an easy day. WolfAJws, Armstrong, Gothics, Saddleback, Basin, Marcy and return? Man don't get down on yourself, that's a hell of a hike for anyone, and especially for someone not used to climbing these mountains. If the goal was to do Mt Marcy, I would have suggested for an Adk newbie to go from the Loj on the VanHoevenberg trail (6 miles, and 4000' elevation gain). Be proud of what you did, that hike was NOT for the faint of heart. Where did you camp btw?

Day or night 1 got there at like 10. Parked gardens hiked roads to Roostercomb trailhead for sign in. Camped just below Roostetcomb summit. Got up at 5 and made it to haystack brook around 10...brutal day. Woke up 6ish scaled haystack and left pack for lil haystack...got back did 3 miles then the final 1209 up to the cloudsplitter. The 9 mile steady decline back to gardens was nice. Did all off trail camping whatever I could find that was clear and somewhat flat. First time in the acks didn't realize how wild the highpeaks wilderness was lol. It was def a brutal route even to daypack. What killed me was the camping gear. When I return to enjoy the area I will be doing two seperate day hikes nit that loop ever again!

Definitely a tough route. If you ever are on the Ward Brook Truck trail climbing the Sewards, be sure to stop over at Duck Hole. Gorgeous place. The leantos at Camp #4 have been rehabbed, that was a tough weekend bringing up tools and supplies (and then back). BTW, I didn't see you list a bear canister on your gear list, just a note: they are required in the Eastern High Peaks Region.

Mark
I see that you live at 230 feet above sea level. I'm not sure how high the peaks are that you mentioned, but I can tell you that coming up from sealevel there is already an appreciable loss of oxygen at 3,000'. I've seen skiers (from sea level)suffering at 5,500 feet crosscountry skiing. A 40 pound pack is not light for anybody and for someone your size its a lot. Are you cross trained? I've know 100 mile bike racers who crapped out after 5 miles of hiking and took a bus home, and their legs were obviously in great shape, but not for climbing or hiking.

And as hs been mentioned, eventually you will be forced to carry less and by then you will have the experience to decide what to leave out, until then just push harder and if it doesn't kill you it'll make you stronger.
Jim

I think that's really the lesson to be learned here, and for you it provides the balance I was getting at. Your first plan wasn't a good one. So what, just adjust your plan to suit yourself better.

When I backpack, I hike and bushwhack around to find cool spots for setting up a basecamp, then I make day hikes to places I want to see near there. I've always done that.

I spend a day or two here, then a day or two there. It depends on what I want to see and what I find when I get there. A basecamp helps provide the leisure time I was talking about too.

It's fun to ramble around without a pack on your back. It's faster and easier to get around, and it's really nice to return to a camp that's got all your gear there ready to use.

--

This is a bit of a tangent...

The people that I learned my camping skills from, mostly Sierra Nevada cowboys and women, went to "Good Spots" and spent time at them, and played around there and looked for more "Good Spots".

While you were looking, if you didn't find one someone would always say, "Well, I know of a good spot over that way" and the discussion would begin on where the best spot to go for the night might be.

This seems to be a style of camping that's been a little lost with the advent of longer trails and "Adventure Backpacking".

Lots of people don't really go someplace anymore, they go through them, and often they, like the OP, are specific in their desire to tackle a certain goal, like climb a peak, or scale a cliff face.

Maybe it's an age thing, and I'm sort of in the middle of usage trends, but I never approached the sport from the "Xtreme" angle. For me, and those I learned from, it's always been an opportunity to get outdoors and spend some much needed leisure time in the wilderness. It was entirely about enjoying ourselves.

I can appreciate the "Xtreme" approach to the sport. It makes for great TV too. But, as the OP said, "I don't think i'd enjoy some stuff if i need to brutalize myself...".

Me neither.

A variation on the theme of going to, rather than through, a place is to revisit the same place often.

In the heavily-settled Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana region, we don't have a lot of wild country to choose from, and what we do have is concentrated into "pocket" wildernesses compared to what a lot of you have. By necessity, I'll visit the same place often - Kentucky's Red River Gorge being a prime example. There are usually enough trails to provide a couple of days' hiking with enough distance to use different campsites each night - I came up with three distinct routes that fit my hiking needs. However, I made a point of mixing up my hikes: hiking the same route from different directions on two different trips, visiting in different times of the year, camping on ridgetops one trip and in valleys the next, and so forth. In the end, you see something new every trip, and get to learn an area intimately.