Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Port Townsend, WA
Hmm - I've been using it as a chair with the delicate and much criticized Big Agnes Cyclone SL. Super comfortable and warmer than the Clearview I was using before.
I've used it, with the Compack chair kit, without any problems. My only nit to pick is that it's a nuisance having to blow it up and deflate it at lunch stops, then repeat the whole process in camp. Not enough of a nuisance to make me leave the chair behind, but annoying in the why-does-smoke-follow-me-around-the-fire kind of way.
The only other nuisance factor is that you have to take it in and out of the chair to sleep. I solved this by using the chair upside down, and letting the pad extend fully out the open end. I (Karol) sewed a piece of silnylon onto the chair, so the pad would be protected a bit from the dirt. Doesn't work too bad. The put-in, take-out factor is enough to make me leave the chair behind on a couple of trips so far.
Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
OK, a dissenting voice here.
I worked really hard at convincing myself that the NeoAir was just fine because of my attraction to the weight savings. After using it on several trips, I realized that the NeoAir, mostly thanks to its many horizontal tubes, was not nearly as comfortable as my POE Ether Thermo (of which I have an older version). I had a really hard time finding the "sweet spot" between too hard and so soft that my hip bone touched the ground. The thing also kept "bucking me off"--every time I turned over (which I do a lot of), I'd find myself on the ground. My POE pad is much easier to adjust to the correct (for me) amount of air (probably due to the larger tubes) and the outside tubes keep me from rolling off. Finally, I got cold on the NeoAir at 40 degrees F. Below that I had to use a supplemental pad, which put paid to any real weight savings over my POE insulated pad. Regulars on this forum (such as Glenn) have read my account of attempting to use it with a light CCF pad on a 18*F early October night! I am definitely a cold sleeper, but even for a warm sleeper I wouldn't recommend the NeoAir where there's any chance of its getting below freezing (a frequent happening even in midsummer in some of the areas in which I backpack).
Of course each of us has his/her own individual sleep style, about as individual as shoe size or pack size. But judging from the large number of slightly used NeoAirs I see on sale on various forums, it appears I'm not the only one who has decided it's not for me!
Edited by OregonMouse (06/10/1004:32 PM)
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey
I've recently done two 3-day trips with mine, and love it. Just like the Big Agnes, but quite a bit lighter. And I never slip around like I used to on my (original) BA Air Core.
I think you've hit on it: individual sleep style matters a lot. I like mine; I find it more comfortable than the BA Insulated Air Core it replaced. I can't comment on "warmer" since I've not yet had it out in 20-degree temperatures - and I'm concerned enough that my first such experience with it will be when I'm car-camped, with a closed-cell pad in the car if I need it. I know the BA IAC was a failure at 25 degrees - the cold from the ground came through it like it wasn't there.
However, for me, the all around champ (balancing light weight, comfort, warmth, versatility, puncture-resistance, and convenience) is still the 1.5 inch Thermarest light (through various incarnations of Ultralight, Prolite 4, and Prolite Plus.) It didn't win any of the categories hands down, but if I rated all my pads across all the categories, it won.
The main reason I carry the NeoAir instead of Prolite now is weight and comfort. It's not as good a chair (though it's not too bad), and it's not as convenient to inflate (or to insert in that chair kit.) But, at least for now, I'll put up with the lesser versatility and convenience to get half a pound or so off my back.
Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
I've said it many times before on other like posts, I've used my small in single digit temps on unfrozen ground, on snow with a CCP underneath from freezing temps down into the teens with minimal issues.
Well that depends how you compare wt. savings. If you are going to compare it to a 3in thick traditional therm-a-rest ( do they even make one ) then I you are still saving weight and have better insulation.
I do have one question: Where do people find the money to pay for a $140.00 air pad?
The same place I find the money to get a high quality down bag/jacket - the gear gets used often enough that they will be less expensive and more appreciated over the long term.
To break it down: I go out all year, at least one overnight every month. My NeoAir is good without the spare foam pad for most of the year since I don't winter camp (I go to lower elevation trails instead of busting out the snowshoes). I've been down to the low 20F range and been fine with it. My hips aren't sore in the morning and don't hit the ground through the pad, which they did often on the 1.5" Thermarest I had before.
It's worth every penny for those reasons. Just like good down gear that will last for decades and compresses quite small and keeps me warm and toasty is worth every penny.
If you go once a year, and don't care about weight, it makes far more sense to get a cheaper bag and cheaper pad.
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
Don't know about anyone else, but camping gear became a lot more affordable once the kids were through school and self-supporting, and the mortgage was paid off. It doesn't hurt that I don't smoke, drink, gamble, or have additional expensive hobbies. (I play golf, but my golf gear is no way in as good a shape as my hiking gear.)
Empty nesting is vastly underrated - it's like dating, except this time you have money.
Agreed. My backpacking expenses make it my cheapest hobby, no matter how much gear and clothing I accumulate. And adjusting for inflation, good gear has never been cheaper than it is today.
On my drives up the hill to go hiking, I like to compare imaginary budgets with the goobers hauling their custom off-road rigs with their turbodiesel eff-two-fiddys, or the retirees avec gigantic are-vees towing Lexus ess-you-vees.
Of course, we're the "elitists."
Yup, backpacking is a cheap hobby/sport/lifestyle. and money spent in pursuit of a good night's sleep is money well spent.
Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
You are right OM, not much of a savings at least in the winter, but, it is all about bulk too. My NeoAir can go in the pack and the CCF pad tied on outside, don't want to do that with the Exped DAM. Plus, push comes to shove, the CCF can double as a sit pad if I forget my GG sit pad.
Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Not a weight saving even in the summer, because nights are often below 40*F and can easily get below freezing in the high mountains in the summer. So I'd have to take a 3/8 to 1/2" pad almost all the time.
I am comparing the weight (and comfort) of the NeoAir to a standard insulated air pad, such as the POE Ether Thermo and the BA Insulated air pad, which are the alternatives if you want a 2 1/2" thick air pad. I haven't been able to use a self-inflating pad for years--my hips have gotten more and more pressure sensitive.
How does one afford the NeoAir, assuming you would want it? REI has 20% off coupons several times per year, and allows you to return the thing even if you've used it on a couple of trips. Short size pad plus the 20% off coupon put it under $100.
I expect my next pad, once my POE pad dies, will be a custom down-filled pad, probably 3 inches thick, from Kooka Bay.
Edited by OregonMouse (06/14/1010:22 PM)
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May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey
Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
Well young lady, I'm not warm blooded, super warm, or a meaty guy, so I'm surprised the NeoAir works for me even in single digits on unfrozen ground. As for affording one, no mortgage, kids or revolving credit card payments for an over extended debt:) work for me. My credit card gets paid off every month. I'm not upwardly mobile, but I can get new stuff once in awhile. I may get what you have when I need a new pad, we'll see.
Don't know about anyone else, but camping gear became a lot more affordable once the kids were through school and self-supporting, and the mortgage was paid off. It doesn't hurt that I don't smoke, drink, gamble, or have additional expensive hobbies. (I play golf, but my golf gear is no way in as good a shape as my hiking gear.)
Empty nesting is vastly underrated - it's like dating, except this time you have money.
27 owning my own place in northern nj, and trying to obtain nice gear is a challenge in and of it self...oh yea i gotta get food too! i like the nicer gear as well, but the neo vs the ba ins air core was easy for me
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I do it because I can...it also helps that you are not there...
I remember that challenge - I was trying to equip myself and my 12-year-old son at that point. We used tarps because they were cheaper than tents, and accepted that we'd be scratching the 15 or 20 mosquito bites for a week after the trip; we used ponchos because the money we saved over rainsuits paid for a couple of Camp Trails Adjustable II packs. We carried 35 or 40 pounds for the weekend because we couldn't afford all the nice, light North Face, Kelty, Gregory, Lowe, and Marmot stuff. The money had to go to everyday bills, instead. We did dream, though!
Making cost a priority, and making choices about gear based on a budget is absolutely proper. The nice thing is that, nowadays, it's getting harder to find really crappy gear among even the lower-priced stuff. Prices now tend to reflect weight and gee-whiz function, not overall quality differences.
Good, functional gear has always been possible; high-end gear has been a luxury I could only afford over the last 10 years or so. I've enjoyed it, but I've never forgotten that high-end is not the only valid choice, nor is it remotely essential to enjoying being in the woods and mountains.
I'm still waiting for that time when I can play with the high end gear, all my stuff is bargain bin. I've noticed that low end stuff has gotten a lot better over the years, though, even what you'd think was cheap import garbage is often very well made now. You just have to be critical, try to break things in the store if possible (I've tugged on a few suspicious seams and rivets in that way and quietly put stuff back on the shelf). I'm not real sure I'd ever go for the best gear out there, might think differently if I was going to the Himalayas.
I guess I'm just cheap, I am equating a $140.00 air pad to $150.00 tenni-runners that might only cost $10.00 to produce, Successful Advertising ! When I bought my airpads I got them on sale for <$45.00 ea., 2 years ago, insulated and non-insulated versions. I wonder how effective a non-neo pad might be if it was backed by a layer of needle punch reflective insulation, reflective nylon or just a space blanket?
I bought a cheap (from Wally World) soft, foldable car windshield sun reflector. Very light and kept me warmer than the Neo by itself. Can't prove that because I haven't been in the low temps without the reflector, but I felt better.
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Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Helen Keller
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