Feathered Friends 300x250
Superior Down Sleeping Bags & Clothing

Ultralight Adventure Equipment (ULA)    

   
 
 
Lite Gear Talk

BCG Holiday Sale

Amazon.com
Backpacking Forums
BackcountryGear.com
backcountry gear

---- Our Gear Store ----
The Lightweight Gear Store
 
 WINTER CAMPING 

Shelters
Bivy Bags
Sleeping Bags
Sleeping Pads
Snow Sports
Winter Kitchen

 SNOWSPORTS 

Snowshoes
Avalanche Gear
Skins
Hats, Gloves, & Gaiters
Accessories

 ULTRA-LIGHT 

Ultralight Backpacks
Ultralight Bivy Sacks
Ultralight Shelters
Ultralight Tarps
Ultralight Tents
Ultralight Raingear
Ultralight Stoves & Cookware
Ultralight Down Sleeping Bags
Ultralight Synthetic Sleep Bags
Ultralight Apparel


the Titanium Page
WM Extremelite Sleeping Bags

 CAMPING & HIKING 

Backpacks
Tents
Sleeping Bags
Hydration
Kitchen
Accessories

 CLIMBING 

Ropes & Cordage
Protection & Hardware
Carabiners & Quickdraws
Climbing Packs & Bags
Big Wall
Rescue & Industrial

 MEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 WOMEN'S APPAREL 

Jackets
Shirts
Baselayer
Headwear
Gloves
Accessories

 FOOTWEAR 

Men's Footwear
Women's Footwear

 CLEARANCE 

Backpacks
Mens Apparel
Womens Apparel
Climbing
Footwear
Accessories

 BRANDS 

Black Diamond
Granite Gear
La Sportiva
Osprey
Smartwool

 WAYS TO SHOP 

Sale
Clearance
Top Brands
All Brands

 Backpacking Equipment 

Shelters
BackPacks
Sleeping Bags
Water Treatment
Kitchen
Hydration
Climbing


 Backcountry Gear Clearance


Stay Healthy--Eat Well

MARY JANES FARM ORGANIC MEALS

Mary Janes Farm Organic Backcountry Meals

NATURAL HIGH GOURMET MEALS

Natural High

 

Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#133662 - 05/13/10 03:37 PM Re: Handguns (& concealment) [Re: TomD]
countr21 Offline
member

Registered: 03/02/10
Posts: 48
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Originally Posted By TomD
and opens up on with something like that assault pistol one of you likes so much.

This scenario isn't so far fetched. I can think of at least one instance where a teen age hunter killed a hiker with a hunting rifle-it happened in Washington.

Here's another example--
http://www.insidebayarea.com/my-town/ci_14787195


How do you equate hunting accidents to carrying an assault pistol (on obviously non-hunting firearm!!!) while backpacking? Hunting accidents are not that rare....it's a shame how people act while hunting. In your bay area example, the guy shot his buddy because his friend was wearing camo and crawling through some brush on his hands and knees and his friend was only yards away.

When people are backpacking, they are not anticipating to use their firearm around every corner. The "likely outcome will be a lot of dead animals"??? Really???..........Really???? confused


Top
#133666 - 05/13/10 04:38 PM Re: Handguns [Re: PapaSam]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I respectfully submit that even though you say you are a trusting soul, that you are considering the weight and the liabilities of a gun on your journeys says something else....

I grew up around guns. I also grew up in the mountains, around snakes, bears, and all the other critters my family hunted. I am not afraid of any of them - somehow I have made it into my forties without being bitten by any of them, even the rattlesnake that was coiled at the foot of the slide in the backyard when I was playing on the swingset. (We killed it with a hoe.) We only had guns out in hunting season. That's what they are for. Hiking and fishing, we left the gun at home.

In practical terms, you are better served by a good hiking stick or poles, and a holster with pepper spray. You will not be arrested for carrying it without a permit. You won't need to purchase or acquire any sort of permit at all. You won't need to aim perfectly if you are using bear spray.

If you are in a national park or forest in California, and you see an area that looks like it is being cultivated... you leave, being mindful of where you step and as quietly as possible. A gun won't do you any good. If the marijuana growers are present, they know you are there and have you in sights.

If you see a snake, you avoid it. If you are careful of where you put hands and feet (don't stick them in crevasses or holes out of sight) and don't step on them, they won't bite you.

In bear territory, you follow recommended food storage regulations and practices for the area you are in - do not assume you can hang food in Yosemite, for example. You follow grizzly precautions in grizzly territory, and worry about food storage for the most part in black bear territory.

Statistically speaking, you need to worry most about insect bites and domestic dogs. Deer kill more people than bears do. There have been no bear related fatalities in Yosemite - but one deer related death.

Weird people are more concentrated in the city - I say this as a social services worker. You are more at risk walking down the street than on a trail. The most danger will be at the trailhead - and that's a remote chance at best. I have gone alone backpacking without a qualm. Trail crime is a problem sometimes in places where people other than backpackers go hiking - I've heard anecdotes from folks about their tent disappearing in a backcountry Yosemite campground - but almost as rare as bear attacks.

I had friends who hunted mountain lions with dogs when the cats came down to kill calves and sheep. It was the only time we ever saw them...

No, I don't think you need a gun at all. Most trouble you might get into can be avoided by developing an awareness of your surroundings and a knowledge base that includes basic bear safety for the region, the habits of poisonous snakes in the area, and basic first aid to address various insect stings. You will also want some awareness of poison oak/ivy and how to get the oils out of your clothes... that's even more likely to "get" you than anything else.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

Top
#133678 - 05/13/10 07:19 PM Re: Handguns [Re: Cstolworthy]
MarkNM Offline
member

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 141
Loc: Pompton Lakes, NJ
Originally Posted By Cstolworthy
I have been doing martial arts for most my life, I specifically learned how to fight with a staff. I carry a "walking stick" which can become a weapon quickly enough. Also, people who are considering attacking you usually don't see it as a weapon.
Perhaps someone with legal experience can confirm / deny this, but I would imagine that shooting someone is going to be a lot harder to justify than smacking them with a walking stick.


here here...i have to agree...i too am a long time martial artist...and even if i wasnt a jab with a trekking pole from anyone is going to make anything think twice about persisting, those tips hurt...if you wind up in danger with an animal i tend to say its probably your fault...
BTW a knife is considered more lethal at close range than a firearm-its a legal fact

_________________________
I do it because I can...it also helps that you are not there...

Top
#133683 - 05/13/10 08:53 PM Re: Handguns [Re: PapaSam]
Tango61 Offline
member

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 931
Loc: East Texas Piney Woods

We should start a thread that has all the links to all the other gun threads in it and make it a sticky.

And ban all future gun threads.

Everything that can be said. Has been said over and over and over.....


mad mad mad mad
_________________________
If you think you can, you can. If you think you can't, you can't. Either way, you're right.

Top
#133700 - 05/13/10 11:00 PM Re: Handguns [Re: MarkNM]
Cstolworthy Offline
member

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 74
Loc: American Fork, Utah
Originally Posted By MarkNM

BTW a knife is considered more lethal at close range than a firearm-its a legal fact


I will second this, and I would also point out something that seems to happen a lot. People who are going to pull a gun on YOU seem to forget that a gun at 10 feet away works just as well as a gun at point blank. The difference being that I can't take the gun from you at 10 feet. laugh

This is what I mean: [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nwJr8pxU14#t=34s[/video]
_________________________
A tent is a bad place for an argument, because when you are angry you walk out and slam the flap. How are you supposed to express your anger in this situation? Zip it up really quick? ~Mitch Hedberg

Top
#133714 - 05/14/10 02:46 AM Re: Handguns [Re: Tango61]
countr21 Offline
member

Registered: 03/02/10
Posts: 48
Loc: Denver, Colorado
and everything has been said about ULW backpacking so.........

mad mad mad

Top
#133718 - 05/14/10 08:39 AM Re: Handguns [Re: countr21]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3571
Loc: Texas
Quote:
and everything has been said about ULW backpacking so.........


I would agree with Tango61...over the years, gun threads come up often, and not much changes. As an avid shooter/carrier, I have to admit, a firearm is the least useful and heaviest thing in my pack, and has yet to see the light of day in over 30 years, unless I'm hunting. Awareness and stealth trump the gun, any day when out in the boonies. (except my nature preserve..different story... grin) Maybe we need a "Self defense on the trail" forum....some folks like to focus on specific pieces of equipment/technique. They can hang out there. wink



ULW Backpacking however, is so much more of a broad topic, which might include paddling, bushwhacking, regions, equipment choices, health, food, heat, tents/hammock/tarp/bivy....we still see interesting ideas come through.
_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

Top
#133724 - 05/14/10 11:00 AM Re: Handguns [Re: PapaSam]
Claus Offline
member

Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 56
Loc: Central Iowa
Originally Posted By PapaSam
Simply asking the practicality of having a gun while I travel.


Not practical. But then the only practical use of a gun is to kill someone. As for protection, stupid stuff will happen sooner or later.
_________________________
Please feel free to disregard my opinion.
http://adventurelaus.blogspot.com

Top
#133791 - 05/15/10 02:31 PM Re: Handguns [Re: PapaSam]
longhair29 Offline
member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 1328
Loc: Floridad
Country21,

Some points to consider about those ultra-light Titanium revolvers in .44 and .357 Magnum are while they are quite light to carry the user suffers greatly in 'felt' recoil and controlability being they are too light for these respective calibers.

You need the weight of steel to compensate/absorb the harsh recoil of full Magnum handguns. Titanium revolvers are best for small less powerful calibers like .38 Special, 32 Magnums, etc.


Top
#133807 - 05/16/10 06:55 AM Re: Handguns [Re: longhair29]
countr21 Offline
member

Registered: 03/02/10
Posts: 48
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Originally Posted By longhair29
Country21,

Some points to consider about those ultra-light Titanium revolvers in .44 and .357 Magnum are while they are quite light to carry the user suffers greatly in 'felt' recoil and controlability being they are too light for these respective calibers.

You need the weight of steel to compensate/absorb the harsh recoil of full Magnum handguns. Titanium revolvers are best for small less powerful calibers like .38 Special, 32 Magnums, etc.



It's "countr21" I never personally endorsed these firearms, I said I was very surprised at their weight, you will see I expressed concern about the accuracy of such pistols.

I personally stand behind the decision to take some serious firepower like an assault rifle or a dedicated shotty into the back country if you really want to insure yourself against the "unimaginable."

Top
#133814 - 05/16/10 12:31 PM Re: Handguns [Re: countr21]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
I would rather insure myself against the "imaginable"(that which is likely to occur) rather than the unimaginable. Therefore I find mundane items like a FAK, extra clothing, and even a climbing rope (depending upon terrain) to be more useful. Most fatalities in the woods are related to bad weather or falls.

Don't get me wrong. I have used firearms since I was a kid, both in the military, as an enthusiast, and in the NPS. There have been occasions when I felt very happy to have my S&W M28 riding on my hip. It is, in fact, one of my most cherished possessions. But venturing into outdoors in the lower 48, there are many far more useful items which claim space in my pack.

Have we touched on anything in this thread which hasn't been mentioned before in other gun threads? We all get to choose what we carry, so let's make our choices and hit the trail.

Top
#133816 - 05/16/10 02:33 PM Re: Handguns [Re: oldranger]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2861
Loc: Portland, OR
Have we touched on anything in this thread which hasn't been mentioned before in other gun threads?

Nope. It's all been covered before, many times over. Every new gun thread sounds like a repetition from an echo that won't die. smile

Top
#133822 - 05/16/10 04:15 PM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: aimless]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3571
Loc: Texas
grin

Quote:
Nope. It's all been covered before, many times over. Every new gun thread sounds like a repetition from an echo that won't die.


Well, here, I'll try and start something different....
"Dual purpose for firearms?"
Hammer.
Kayak/canoe anchor.
Pack ballast. (for leveling your pack)
Signaling device.
Source of springs/pins/screws.
Compass tester.
Drinking straw...(metallic taste...yuck)

Gee, am I missing anything?

_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

Top
#133823 - 05/16/10 04:35 PM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: Dryer]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Dryer
You did not mention fire starter or can opener and with all the lead perhaps not a drinking straw after all.

My question would be - if you do carry, how do you load?
I prefer a round of snake shot first, then a magnum or P+magnum full jacket hollow point, then maybe some .44 specials to round it off because they recoil little in a magnum handgun and are therefore more accurate. My hammer is always down on an empty tube, so I would carry 5 rounds. If I was to carry. The snake shot is first for snakes or other minor annoyance and for frightening off potential problems without having to hurt them, and the second load, a big magnum is in case they don't frighten off.

Finally if you must carry an ultralight magnum, don't carry magnum loads, "special" loads will be more accurate and kick less. A .38 special is all you will ever need backpacking in the lower 48. Revolvers are more forgiving about ammo so snake shot is preferably used in a revolver not an auto.
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

Top
#133827 - 05/16/10 06:48 PM Re: Handguns [Re: oldranger]
Rick Offline
member

Registered: 05/10/04
Posts: 708
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By oldranger
Have we touched on anything in this thread which hasn't been mentioned before in other gun threads? We all get to choose what we carry, so let's make our choices and hit the trail.


I find these conversations fascinating, intriguing and educational. Every last post. Every time the topic comes up.

I google every model mentioned. I would love to fire one someday. I would even like to own one - something for Polar Bears.

If there is one striking difference between above and below the 49th, its handguns. If the bleeding hearts here had there way we would not even be allowed long guns. Owning a hand gun is next to impossible - legally.

Top
#133830 - 05/16/10 09:13 PM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: Jimshaw]
Dryer Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 3571
Loc: Texas
Jim, with jacketed bullets, I wouldn't worry too much about lead and heavy metals have been removed from propellants for about 15 years now. Ever try to light a camp fire with a gun? Quite exciting! ..even with only a primer and the powder dumped in a pile.
Now, "can opener".....I like that! "Ok everyone, hold out your plates!" tosses can in air grin

_________________________
paul, texas KD5IVP

Top
#133834 - 05/16/10 10:34 PM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: Dryer]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Dual purpose - climbing protection, placed like a cam or chock, particularly a revolver with the ability to swing the cylinder open. A break top revo could be used as a sort of carabiner. The ultimate master key for opening stubborn locks - mind the shrapnel and the spatter. You could leave a trail of rounds, instead of bread crumbs, to find your way home. ULers would want to use use empty casings - much lighter.

Top
#133838 - 05/17/10 08:26 AM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: oldranger]
chndlr04 Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 34
Loc: spotaylvania, va
dual purpose- bear bag rope weight, spin the gun(spin the bottle), empty shell could sub as an emergency tooth cap, window breaker, tent weight, bullets as nose plugs, splitting wood, if the gun is stainless steel and obsessively polished it could double as a mirror, black powder to seal big wounds, half a second flashlight, tick removal, cig lighter. thats all i can think of right now

Top
#133839 - 05/17/10 09:22 AM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: chndlr04]
balzaccom Offline
member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 1731
Loc: Napa, CA
You guys are leaving out the shell casing as an emergency whistle---for when you are outgunned by the deer, and need to call for help!
_________________________
balzaccom

check out our website and blog: http://www.backpackthesierra.com/home

Top
#133843 - 05/17/10 11:39 AM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: balzaccom]
finallyME Offline
member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By balzaccom
You guys are leaving out the shell casing as an emergency whistle---for when you are outgunned by the deer, and need to call for help!


Or in case the raccoons mount an assault and overrun your position. wink
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.

Top
#133854 - 05/17/10 06:56 PM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: chndlr04]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
Yeah, very funny 'm lady. BUT... the two women murdered on Shennandoah Nat'l. Park on tehe Applachian Trail back in 2000 (I think) would have rather liked to have had a handgun. I was backpacking through there W/ my bbuddy at the time & we were interviewed by a Park Ranger whe we came out to a park concesion store. It was a chilling time to be on the AT. Women attatched themselves to groups W/guys for safety.


Eric
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

Top
#133861 - 05/17/10 08:47 PM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: 300winmag]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2861
Loc: Portland, OR
I don't think anyone here would take the position that no crime has ever occurred at any time to any hiker anywhere, nor that a handgun could not possibly do any good under any thinkable circumstances. So, your citing one heinous crime that happened to someone somewhere is not exactly going to change the argument, or even change many minds. It is already factored in to our conclusions.

But that isn't to say you should never carry a weapon, if you do so legally and responsibly. I don't think anyone here would mind if you did.

Just two days ago I was hiking on a fairly empty trail, when I met a man coming down the trail with a Doberman on a leash and a sidearm in a holster. The dog was friendly and well-behaved. So was he. We chatted. The gun made no difference to me. To each his own. wink

Top
#133911 - 05/18/10 06:30 PM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: aimless]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
I don't have a problem with people carrying guns in holsters. I figure they probably have some idea why and what they're doing, and anyway here in Oregon its legal to walk into the grocery store packing a loaded gun in a holster, or to drive with a loaded gun on the seat or dash.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

Top
#133925 - 05/18/10 10:01 PM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: Jimshaw]
aimless Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 2861
Loc: Portland, OR
On the dashboard? Not an ideal location, if you ask me. As a school bus driver, I am not allowed to have ANYTHING sitting loose on the dash. Not even a Twinkie(tm). grin

Top
#133930 - 05/18/10 11:40 PM Re: Handguns "Dual purpose for firearms?" [Re: aimless]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
aimless, I sometimes wonder about the hidden meanings of that name, but I automatically assumed that someone named aimless should not be involved in a gun fight. laugh

Well what can I say, thats the law here in Oregon. You can't walk away and park the vehicle with a gun in the window, but on the dash it is officially "non-concealed".
I'd be scared my .44 might break the window while out four wheeling on bumpy terrain.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

Top
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >

Shout Box

Highest Quality Lightweight Down Sleeping Bags
 
Western Mountaineering Sleeping Bags
 
Lite Gear Talk - Featured Topics
Knife, Fire Starter, Ignition Source
by Jim M
12/11/17 07:34 PM
Bivvy bag with wired peak
by Petro1234
12/10/17 01:06 PM
How cheap can you go?
by EMT Dave
12/05/17 07:07 PM
Backcountry Discussion - Featured Topics
Greetings - and a question
by valongi
12/11/17 11:35 AM
Just found out about UCO candles
by toddfw2003
11/30/17 08:41 AM
Hitting the eagle rock loop, Ark in 3 days
by toddfw2003
11/19/17 11:31 AM
Make Your Own Gear - Featured Topics
Plant based insulation...
by billstephenson
11/18/17 02:58 PM
lightest grommets to use
by toddfw2003
10/22/17 06:13 PM
avalibility of thin ti rod
by the-gr8t-waldo
01/26/17 04:45 PM
Featured Photos
Breakneck Ridge, New York
May 2012 Eclipse, Lassen Park
New Years Eve 2011
Trip Report with Photos
Seven Devils, Idaho
Oat Hill Mine Trail 2012
Dark Canyon - Utah
Who's Online
0 registered (), 23 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
valongi, Atkinson J, Dcarpenter, Woodland, ultralight
12469 Registered Users
Forum Links
Disclaimer
Policies
Site Links
HOME
Backpacking.net
Family Hiking
Lightweight Gear Store
Backpacking Book Store
Lightweight Zone
Hiking Essentials

Outdoor Gear Daily Deals
Outlets, Sales, Bargains

Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:

Backcountry Forum
 
 

Since 1996 - the Original Backcountry Forum
Copyright © The Lightweight Backpacker & BackcountryForum.com