Hello all!

I'm recently returning to backpacking as an adult, having spent most of my childhood outdoors camping/canoeing with family. I'm realizing that I'm having to relearn a lot of skills, which is exciting and challenging, and just had two questions about bear bags (I realize that there's a canister vs. bag debate, but for the sake of my questions I'm asking about a bag).

1) Is there anything I can spray/rub/put inside my bear bag that will help deter bears based on smell? Some animals have certain scents that they dislike, and I was wondering if there was anything that might help act as another defense?

2) I have also heard stories of small critters getting into bags by climbing down the rope from above and chewing in. I wonder if wrapping the rope just above the bag with something that has less traction - ie: aluminum foil or plastic - might help keep 'em out. I see people in town wrap similar things around tree trunks to keep squirrels from taking them over, and thought maybe this logic could be applied?

Any info is greatly appreciated! I plan on hanging an Ursack s29 using the PCT method, and just wanted to know about some added defense. The area I'll be primarily hiking in (at least for my first few seasons) doesn't have grizzlies, but does have a healthy population of black bears.

Thanks!

Unless it's an area that's known for problem bears or something like that, I'd just tie the Ursack to a tree trunk at ground level rather than hanging it. Do use the odor proof liner as Ursack recommends.

I don't think it's helpful for me or any one person to follow something like that up with "... and I've never had any problems", because that's statistically meaningless, but I do suspect you'll be fine, and again, barring known problem bears, it's what I would do. For me at least, the whole point of an Ursack is to not HAVE to hang the danged bag ... :-)

If I could think of a really funny Smart Alec comment I'd make it, but the only thing I know of that bears don't like is coffee. Hanging a bear proof bear bag is not the way to go, you just leave it on the ground. I understand rodents have a problem chewing through them. I've never actually ever used one. Actually its probably less energy to carry the bag than to hang it, its not really easy to hang food in trees, and you need the perfect tree, although I do hang my food, its just habit. I've never had a small animal climb down the food hanging rope, but then I've also never had a bear after my food except in National parks. Bears are creatures of habit and generally only prowl regular campsites. They have a route that takes them to their known most probable picanic basket sites and its not worth their energy to search randomly for food.
Jim

1. Nope. Anything they smell will be of interest and if they can investigate they will. Coffee seems to be an exception. There are probably other exceptions, but they will also smell the food, and that's all they need to know. Nothing seems to actually deter them by odor.

2. I have heard some folks have good luck with a hole drilled in a frisbee or the bottom of a five gallon bucket cut down to about that size, placed on the rope atop the sack. Steel wool stuffed inside the mouth of the sack will deter mice.

You're not supposed to hang an Ursack - that's not the point. If you tie the knot right the bear supposedly only makes it tighter as it tugs on it, if you selected a large enough rock or tree trunk. If you're going to hang you might as well just use a regular ol' sack or sacks if you counterbalance.

If you are ever going to come to the Sierras, I advise against Ursacks even where they are allowed. The bears here are a persistent lot. Have heard anecdotal tales of bears ripping the bottom right out of Ursacks. Hanging is illegal in Yosemite and parts of SEKI, as well as along the JMT - the bears are smart enough to get hung food. This is why we got up to drive 'em off each time a bear came along to wrestle the canisters, eventually one of the rocket scientist bears will figure out they can roll them against granite and bust them, and next we'll be banned from carrying food or forced to roll it along in front of us in steel drums....

Well. Maybe not. But it sure is frustrating that they're so good at this stuff.

Don't hang the ursack. the point of tying the ursack securly to the tree as *the instructions tell you to* is to the bear can't bugger off with it.. use it as directed.

If you are going to hang with the PCT method (something I do frequently) just make sure you *practice* so you can do it right, and get the bag *high enough* and just use that with a light silnyon bag.

I got an ursack about a year and a half ago, and now actually use it more than hanging, just so I can avoid finding a good hang. If I'm going somplace with established bearproof stuff in backcountry campsites (like bear boxes or hangs) then I don't take the ursack, just a light bag and my hang rope, biner and rock bag in case I end up random camping.

Wow, already so many hints and tips! Thanks to you all!

I had known that the Ursack doesn't need to be hung, but my thinking was that combining a few methods might further stack the odds in my favour. Probably this stems from some newbie jitters, since I realize that keeping a clean site and keeping food and sleep areas separate are really the key things. It's funny because I grew up in Northern Ontario and have had benign encounters with black bears all my life - nature walks, cross-country skiing in the early winter, etc. Yup, definitely just some newbie jitters, haha.

Thanks for the advice - my first trip is planned for April and I'll let you all know how it goes.

Not sure I'd consider them small, but I've had my hanging food bag attacked by a pair of pine martens. They actually hand-over-handed the crossline, and one lowered the other down to the bag. I swear they were carrying climbing slings and GPS with them. I don't think aluminum would have foiled them (ahem).