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#121065 - 09/17/09 11:20 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: finallyME]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee
I think that lying straight in the thing for the first night would probably break you from ever doing that again. I use a hammock but not every time I go out. I have a tent and I have a tarp and I use them all at one time or the other..I like my hammock set-up and if I could get my wife to go that way too I would use it more often....sabre11004.... awesome
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#121077 - 09/17/09 12:40 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: 300winmag]
Ewker Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 222
Loc: Tennessee
I try to lay on a diagonal when I sleep in my hammock. Problem is I can't control how much I toss and turn all night long. I can't get comfortable no matter what I am sleeping in. For those of you that can just stay in one position all night you are lucky

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#121094 - 09/17/09 03:16 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Ewker]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I dunno, I probably look like a sack of mad cats when I'm asleep in my hammock. What kind of hammock are you tossing in?
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#121101 - 09/17/09 05:42 PM Brainstorm (or brain fart) - you decide [Re: lori]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
While reading about "sleeping diagonally" in a hammock I thought, "Gee, why not use hiking poles for spreader bars at each end, kinda like the TT Rainbow does, only captured in a fabric tube."

Is this a bad idea? My L.L. Bean rope hammock has wooden spreader bars and I love 'em. Obviously this would have to be designed in from the inception - (wouldn't it?)

Eric
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#121105 - 09/17/09 07:26 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: lori]
Ewker Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 222
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By lori
I dunno, I probably look like a sack of mad cats when I'm asleep in my hammock. What kind of hammock are you tossing in?


WBBB and a Speer..doesn't matter. I can be in my tarptent and still do that frown

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#121106 - 09/17/09 09:06 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Ewker]
thecook Offline


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 541
Loc: Minnesota
There are a variety of hammock designs that use spreader bars including bridge hammocks. The problem is that no matter how you spread the ends of a regular hammock it will still sag in the middle, causing you to look like a banana if you sleep straight. By sleeping on the diagonal, across the curve, you can find a place that is, if not completely flat, pretty darn close. In contrast, bridge hammocks work like a suspension bridge with the support, and its curve, above you.
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#121125 - 09/18/09 11:30 AM Re: Brainstorm (or brain fart) - you decide [Re: 300winmag]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By 300winmag
While reading about "sleeping diagonally" in a hammock I thought, "Gee, why not use hiking poles for spreader bars at each end, kinda like the TT Rainbow does, only captured in a fabric tube."

Is this a bad idea? My L.L. Bean rope hammock has wooden spreader bars and I love 'em. Obviously this would have to be designed in from the inception - (wouldn't it?)

Eric


That's called a bridge hammock, and the design is more like a fabric bathtub than a gathered end.

Jacks R Better has one - http://www.jacksrbetter.com/BMBH.htm
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#121154 - 09/18/09 09:01 PM Re: Brainstorm (or brain fart) - you decide [Re: lori]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
So the Jacks 'R Better Bridge hammock uses extra tubes you have to carry.

Does any hammock maker utilize hiking poles?

Eric
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#121156 - 09/18/09 09:26 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Ewker]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 998
Loc: Australia
Same as Ewker here.
I appreciate how so many hammockers are bewildered that not everybody is in love with their particular contraption, but as a dedicated tosser (you knew that) AND turner my brief experience with the HH Ultralite ( or similar name...) was not my cup of tea, possibly because I usually drink coffee when hiking.
Franco

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#121176 - 09/19/09 08:38 AM Re: Brainstorm (or brain fart) - you decide [Re: 300winmag]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
The poles are optional - you can use your trekking poles, I believe.

_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#121177 - 09/19/09 08:50 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Franco]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
I can appreciate (certainly!) that some do not like/get hammocks... I hike with an older gent who is convinced he will get motion sickness, and that after meeting someone who reports severe motion sickness and yet she sleeps in a Hennessy. What I don't understand are the legions of people who have not TRIED them, who will post time after time that hammocks are cold, make you banana-ish, are not feasible at all, blah blah blah. The only other pieces of gear I've seen dismissed out of hand this way are water filters and alcohol stoves. One by folks who don't think backcountry water sources are contaminated, the other by folks who are either all about convenience or taken in by another set of myths.

Most of the common complaints about hammocks are not true, or are only true if you do not bother to do ANY research at all and just go pick up whatever hammock is cheap. All you have to have to be warm in a hammock in normal 3 season conditions is the stuff you used in the tent - pad and sleeping bag. You are simply using them a little differently - deflate the thermarest a bit, open the bag and use it like a quilt.

_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#121179 - 09/19/09 09:32 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: lori]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 656
Loc: Upstate NY
Lori, I hear what you are saying. It is a fascinating phenomenon. I also agree that it is similar to the complaints about alcohol stoves. We hear how they don't work in the cold, etc... I disagree about it being similar to the filter debate since I have not seen any research or data to support the contention that the backcountry water IS indeed contaminated. I once asked a water quality researcher about the water in the adirondacks and he was unaware of even any studies concerning biological pathogens like giardia or crypto. All research seemed to be about acid rain, and the ecological health of the system.

Secondly my experience (which is limited to the Adirondacks, forests along the FLT, Allegany in PA, Algonquin in Ont) tell me differently. Apparently I do everything wrong since I sleep in a hammock (even in winter), use an alcohol stove (even in winter), and drink water right from the source without treating it. Of course I have the experience, and knowledge to back up my gear choices. Thus I do not recommend others just do what I do.
_________________________
http://ducttapeadk.blogspot.com

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#121182 - 09/19/09 10:50 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: lori]
Ewker Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/09
Posts: 222
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By lori
I can appreciate (certainly!) that some do not like/get hammocks... hat I don't understand are the legions of people who have not TRIED them, who will post time after time that hammocks are cold, make you banana-ish, are not feasible at all, blah blah blah.
Most of the common complaints about hammocks are not true, or are only true if you do not bother to do ANY research at all and just go pick up whatever hammock is cheap. All you have to have to be warm in a hammock in normal 3 season conditions is the stuff you used in the tent - pad and sleeping bag. You are simply using them a little differently - deflate the thermarest a bit, open the bag and use it like a quilt.


Lori, not sure who you are directing that too but my comment was about tossing and turning all night long no matter if I am in a tent or a hammock.

Yes you can use a pad and sleeping bag (as a quilt) and sleep in a hammock but there is more to it than that. A hammock takes a lot more tweaking than a tent does. I have used a tent for yrs and have tried the hammock for the past 2-3 yrs. There is still tweaking that goes on even now. I never noticed I was doing that until a person said I wouldn't mind trying a hammock but you are always adjusting it in some way and I do. There are folks who say they can hang it right the first time. I don't totally agree with that since every hanging situation is different (unless you never get out of your backyard like some do).

The main thing is that folks should get out and enjoy being out in the woods. Who cares what you use for a shelter. Seems it does to some and that applies to tenters and hammockers alike.

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#121215 - 09/20/09 02:56 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Ewker]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
I am almost positive that its the person. I mean i can sleep just about anywhere. Hammocks and tents are fairly intuitive and don't require a whole lot of tweeking. Now i have just set up a hammock in the back yard and at the local lake, but i have never had problems with how i hang it. Same with the tent, you face the correct direction to the and if you need to repitch before bed. Then again this is for me and i am not picky.

I really want to get into hammock camping, i just dont have the funds and just got a new ground dwelling set up(which i like).



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#121220 - 09/20/09 03:14 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: DTape]
Franco Offline
member

Registered: 04/05/04
Posts: 998
Loc: Australia
To me there is a difference between a "should I get a tent/hammock/tarp" thread and a "what hammock should I get ?"
I think that is fair enough for me (anybody) to state why hammocks don't work for me ( apart from in the afternoon sun in my backyard) in the former, however I never post comments on the latter type. Same for bivvies/tarps and various other shelters I don't like.
I also get annoyed with some that jump in with negative comments every time a brand or a type of gear is mentioned.
(including people that have a go at ultralighters IN the ultralighter specific forums)
Franco
BTW, I use and enjoy, the Caldera Cone (alcohol) and don't usually purify my water either.

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#121222 - 09/20/09 07:24 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Bushman]
DTape Offline
member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 656
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By Bushman


I really want to get into hammock camping, i just dont have the funds and just got a new ground dwelling set up(which i like).




Many will point you in the direction of http://www.imrisk.com/testhammock/testhammock.htm to make a test hammock. It is a great idea. I would suggest for $10-$15 more get a "travel hammock". I think the company is now called Grand Trunk something or other. I still have my original travel hammock. It goes in my day hike pack for those times I find a place I want to just relax. Nice to sit in for lunch too.
_________________________
http://ducttapeadk.blogspot.com

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#121251 - 09/20/09 10:44 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Ewker]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Ewker


Yes you can use a pad and sleeping bag (as a quilt) and sleep in a hammock but there is more to it than that. A hammock takes a lot more tweaking than a tent does. I have used a tent for yrs and have tried the hammock for the past 2-3 yrs. There is still tweaking that goes on even now. I never noticed I was doing that until a person said I wouldn't mind trying a hammock but you are always adjusting it in some way and I do. There are folks who say they can hang it right the first time. I don't totally agree with that since every hanging situation is different (unless you never get out of your backyard like some do).


I must be doing something wrong, then. I don't tweak. I set up the hammock and sleep in it. Sometimes the trees are closer together or further apart, but that just does not seem to matter a bit. I hang, put on the underquilt, throw in the top quilt and clothes, and go fishing. If it looks cloudy or it will be very cold at night I put up the tarp too. When I started using figure nines on the tarp, someone asked if I enjoyed all the adjusting - I told her no, but it was my first time, and five or six setups from now, I would be enjoying other things a lot sooner. I was right.

I watched someone put up a tarptent this weekend. It looked dead simple too. However, the pitch was not taut at all, and I think he was lucky there was not any serious wind or rain. I've seen some loose tent flies on REI Half Dome tents. Everything needs tweaking, not everything gets it. Some things are subject to more expectations than others.

Quote:
The main thing is that folks should get out and enjoy being out in the woods. Who cares what you use for a shelter. Seems it does to some and that applies to tenters and hammockers alike.


It doesn't matter to me what people use - I go out with tarpers, tenters and hammockers alike. It's just interesting that there is this perception that hammocking is like rocket science or something, when it's really more a matter of what you are willing to do, and what motivates you to do it.

From what I've experienced and seen, tents seem to me on a par with the tweakage, if you really intend to set them up to be weather-worthy. And setting up a tarp is simple until the conditions change - I watched someone fighting for an hour and a half to nail down the tie outs and edges of a spinnaker tarp in the wind. She's now shopping for a tent. Then there's a guy I hike with frequently who usually takes a bivy - he brought an ENO and hung with me, for the first time, with his thermarest and sleeping bag. He did it "all wrong" - trees were too close together, not enough sag, and he didn't have a tarp, even. He said he was comfortable. I certainly didn't lecture him on the use of tree straps or how banana shaped he looked in the hammock - he was fine with it, okay, so am I. The lady with the spinnaker tarp, unlike so many with spinnaker tarps who are satisfied, is driven elsewhere by tweaking. The bivy dweller with the hammock hung all wrong is fine. The difference in tweak factor has nothing to do with the hammock, tarp, or bivy. It's what they are willing to tolerate.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#121255 - 09/20/09 10:52 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: lori]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
weather worthy tarps take tweeking, yes. I just cant believe people get worked up about what kinda of shelter, skis, clothing etc people use. I dont like blind criticism.
Anyway...i was thinking of making a test hammock. If i like it ill get a speer.

HAha more talk...uh pea-pod or yeti? GO!

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#121257 - 09/20/09 11:02 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: lori]
Kieran Offline
member

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 46
Loc: Seattle, WA
i'm intrigued, so started checking out suppliers. i have no idea if i'll like hammocking or not - how good are these?
http://www.gofastandlight.com/NO-SEE-UM-Mesh-Tent-Hammock/productinfo/HA-E-NOSEE/

the price certainly is nice.

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#121265 - 09/21/09 03:13 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: lori]
300winmag Offline
member

Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Nevada, USA
Yer keerect about "what you're willing to tolerate" Lori. I just bought a Tarptent Moment B/C it looks dead easy to pitch completely taught every time.

My former TT Contrail was easy to pitch but took, as you say, some "tweaking" to get nice and tight. And tarps ALWAYS take tweaking to get them right. But when they are right they are really nice.

I have to find someone with a good backpacking hammock to test it out. When I slept on a ship's hammock I was dead tired and just getting horizontal was enough to put me to sleep.

Eric
_________________________
"There are no comfortable backpacks. Some are just less uncomfortable than others."

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#121275 - 09/21/09 10:40 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Kieran]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Originally Posted By Kieran
i'm intrigued, so started checking out suppliers. i have no idea if i'll like hammocking or not - how good are these?
http://www.gofastandlight.com/NO-SEE-UM-Mesh-Tent-Hammock/productinfo/HA-E-NOSEE/

the price certainly is nice.


It weighs the same as a Blackbird, it doesn't look like it's been shaped to be on the diagonal, it has additional rope ties on the netting instead of an integrated ridgeline (an integrated ridgeline will also help you get the same amount of sag in the hammock every time), and it looks a lot like Speer's expedition hammock. 57 inches is narrow for a hammock that isn't shaped for a flat lay, if you want that. Also you'll need to buy tree straps for it, and a tarp.

But, a lot of people like Speer style hammocks. They work as well as any other, and better than some.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#121277 - 09/21/09 10:44 AM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: 300winmag]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Well, if you ever get to Central California, I go out every single month. A post asking to try someone's hammock at hammockforums will net you invites to the hangouts, but many of those are on the east coast.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#121284 - 09/21/09 01:32 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: lori]
chris Offline
member

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 26
Loc: kentucky
I agree with Lori in that all shelters have some sort of tweaking that goes on as you learn about them. With hammocking the under insulation has been the thing that I've had to tweak the most. I would think site selection is pretty big in tweaking tent and tarp setups. You don't want slopes or areas that collect or funnel water.

I've had very little trouble getting a good hang out of my blackbird but it has a set ridgeline that makes it pretty easy.

KY Chris

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#121299 - 09/21/09 07:38 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: chris]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
So speer hammocks aren't diagonal sleeping hammocks?

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#121300 - 09/21/09 07:59 PM Re: Tarpers, Hammockers & Tenters... [Re: Bushman]
Bushman Offline
member

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 122
Loc: California
I need someone to explain a BB vs and speer. Does the double layer of the BB really help? I have a hard time paying 160 for just hammock.

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