Some of the major retailers that I know of include REI, EMS, Campmore, Backcountry Edge, Kittery Trading Post, and LL Bean. I'm not even sure that all of those have actual retail stores.

The point is that most of us live within driving of distance of only a couple of those retailers, and they carry only specific brands and specific models of packs.

Now, it would be folly to buy a pack without trying it on first (Don't ask how I know that. It is a long and sad tale.) But how can we intellilgently buy a pack if we can only view in person about 10% of all the packs that exist on the market?

I'm finding this very frustrating. I would love to try some of the packs I'm reading about in this forum. My chances of ever seeing many of them are slim. It pains me to think that my perfect pack may be out there among the 90% that I will never see.

A lot of us here, because we want lightweight gear, have packs (and other gear) made by "cottage" manufacturers who sell only on the internet. That is where nearly all the innovative gear comes from these days.

First, do your research. That includes talking with the makers--who, since their only advertising is word of mouth, usually bend over backwards to assist you. Check out reviews (backpackgeartest.org is a good source). Search this and other forums.

Second, be prepared to pay return shipping if the pack doesn't fit. When I got my lightweight internal frame pack (replacing a 5+ pound external frame pack that was hideously uncomfortable) four years ago, I came up with a list of six possible packs that met my criteria. I first went to REI looking for my third and fifth choices (Granite Gear Vapor Trail and Nimbus Ozone, supposedly carried by REI) but the downtown Portland store had none in stock. I did try on a number of other packs while there, which taught me how a properly fitting internal frame pack should feel, but they had none that met my needs. (I also had a lot of trouble even finding a clerk that knew anything about fitting packs, proving that going to the store for help isn't necessarily a good idea.) I was lucky in that my first choice pack (the Six Moon Designs Comet) fit me so well, once I loaded my gear into it and put it on, that it felt as though it had been custom-made just for me. That certainly won't always be the case. To me, it was well worth the possible return shipping charges (about $10/pack) to get exactly the pack I wanted. I figured that even if I had to pay $50 in return shipping charges, it was more important to get the well-fitting but supportive lightweight pack I needed. Many people order several packs at the same time, try them all out and return all but the one they like the best. A several-hour hike around the house with a fully-loaded pack may be very boring, especially if you have to repeat it with several different packs, but it lets you give the pack a good trial while keeping it in pristine condition so you can return it.

It's a good idea to wait to buy the pack until you have your other gear assembled, including the equivalent in weight and volume of a week's food. This insures that your pack is the right volume for your gear and that you can carry your gear comfortably.

It would be wonderful to go into a store and find an enormous selection of lightweight packs and clerks that know how to fit them properly, but in the real world this ain't gonna happen!

I pay with invisible money.

Orrrrr, I order it and return it if the fit stinks. I've been fooled by the in-the-store loaded with weight experience, so recognize there's a bit of practical fit and a bit of alchemy involved. Some packs fit, most do not. You really don't know until you've been on the trail an hour or three.

Cheers,

For those not accustomed to ordering online, "invisible money" means that you time your order so that both the original order and the credit for the return (if you have to return it) hit your credit card in the same billing cycle.

I hope, of course, that you're paying that credit card balance in full each month to avoid the exorbitant interest charges! If you're not, "invisible" definitely does not apply because you'll be paying 20-25% interest in the meantime. Pay off your credit card balance before investing in gear or anything else--you and your wallet will be far happier in the long run!

Must be nice to live somewhere where delivery can be counted on to be quick enough to accomplish this.. For those of us outside the states this is a game that we have to luck out to win at

Yes, the "invisible money" concept is based on living in the "lower 48" of the US buying in the US, and won't work for those having to rely on the vagaries of international shipping!

I second much of what has been said above, about being prepared to ship it back and the vagaries of fit. I'll go further and say that you should be prepared to ship a BUNCH of packs back in order to get the one that fits you best. I worked in outdoor stores for several years and sold a lot of packs; I also have made my own packs for several decades. So I've learned a lot about fitting packs. When I'm out on the trial I'm constantly seeing people with packs that don't fit or are adjusted very badly. I'm sorely tempted to stop some of these people and show them how their pack should fit. What I'm getting at is that if you want to be sure you get a pack that fits well, you will need to be sure you actually understand how a pack should fit you. Wehn you buy a pack in a store, you will hopefully have someone fitting you who knows what they are doing. But that's not always the case. If you buy online, you don't have that help. Complicating matters is the fact that lighter packs usually have less adjustability (leaving off the adjustability is one of the easy ways to lighten up a pack), so it's more critical to get the proper size and the proper pack. So here's an idea: If you buy from a cottage manufacturer like sixmoons or ULA, load up the pack, put it on, and take (or have someone else take) some photos and email them to the maker for ther opinion of size and fit. they won't be able to do what they could in person, but it's a lot better than nothing. And the opinion you get is direct from the pack designer, not just some salesperson who may or may not know what they are talking about.
And finally, I will say that with packs, the fit is so mush more important than any features the pack may or may not have that you shouldn't even think about features like the pockets and such until you've tried them on. If you can find 2 or 3 packs that fit great, then compare the features. Otherwise, forget features and get what fits.

Cottage industries - SMD, ULA, MLD, Gossamer Gear, they'll all work with you. I had a problem with my ULA Circuit, Casey said send a pic, he called me at home that night. Tough to beat.

Ok, I gotta admit it, I agree with your basic statement that fit is more important than featuritis, but really, I've found not too many packs that were within the realm of "fitting" for me that I couldn't wear fine. Is it just that I'm not carrying a huge load in them? Is it that I'm just a desensitized clod who has never had a properly fitting pack? I guess to me yes, fit is important, but I just don't find it that difficult to find a comfortable backpack...

Now shoes and boots on the other hand, forget it.. I'm a total princess.

Paul,thanks very much for your input. I've done a lot of research on packs and fitting, and have tried on just about every pack in the northeast that is physically available to me. I can fit myself in the store without assistance. My specific fit problems are a short torso (16") and extra body weight that is all concentrated in the waist, sadly. Additonally I have very limited finances that must be spread across several outdoor activities, some of them pretty expensive (skiing, kayaking).

I presently have a Gregory Jade 50 that suits me in terms of its weight, padding, and features. If you met me on the trail you would say, "Hey, did you know that pack is 1" too long for you? The shoulder straps aren't wrapping enough."

I have a Gregory Baltoro that fits me perfectly after multiple swops of components. Shipping costs for that pack alone came to $40. I realized with my first trip that the Baltoro itself is too heavy for me, plus I'm not physically capable of carrying 70 liters, unless it's 70 liters of pillows.

Then there's my Mountainsmith Laurel that fits me well after a waistbelt swop, but the shoulder straps and waistbelt are as stiff and bulky as the Baltoro, and I want to go in the opposite direction, of a lighter, more flexible pack. Not much suspension in a Mountainsmith, either.

Osprey: fuggedaboutit, waistbelts too short. Ditto for EMS and all packs with the waitbelt attached at two points in a V (don't know the term for that).

I agree with you about fit versus features, with one exception: the suspension and waistbelt have to be able to carry your planned load; otherwise fit is moot. I had to cross off the Lowe Alpine Airzone Centro 45+10 which is perfect in every way, except that I don't believe it can really carry my planned load of 25 lbs due to the flimsy waistbelt.

My own (of course limited) experience is that while fit is a good thing to get right, having the absolutely best fits-like-a-glove pack becomes a lot less important when the overall weight carried gets sufficiently low. To include, of course, the weight of the backpack itself, which is why so many people go to the cottage industry companies like ULA, Gossamer Gear, etc.

This includes IMO any special "tune the fit" functions of the pack, load lifters, ability to move the whole strap harness higher or lower, whatever. I don't miss that stuff.

Maybe I've just had good luck, but when you order a pack over the internet you take accurate measurements of your torso and between that and carrying reasonable loads the couple of packs I've bought this way have been great from the start.

"How do you buy a backpack you can't see?"

With money you don't have

BF

OM,

When I bought my Dana Designs Terraplane years ago (when Dana owned the company)I had to go through three waist belts before I got the correct one. Everything else fit fine. Fortunately the pack had removable belts and Dana Designs had several models of belts available. Just goes to show what catalog buying can entail.

Of course that weighty pack (over SEVEN pounds!) is now relegated to winter duty on my pulk. If the pulk get totaled I still have a useable pack.

Eric