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#102322 - 09/06/08 07:19 AM Re: My New Water Filter Design [Re: Ben2World]
jasonklass Offline
member

Registered: 08/27/05
Posts: 551
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Quote:
Jason:

The Frontier Pro pore size is 3.0 microns according to Cabela's product description (Aquamira itself is silent on this). Curious, where did you get your 2.0 micron info?


That's what it said on the website where I bought it but maybe that was incorrect? I went Aquamira's website and they don't give the pore size--just like you said. I'm going to contact them to find out what the true size is.
_________________________
Gear Talk There's no such thing as having too many sporks!

Backpack Flyfishing Tight lines,light packs


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#102323 - 09/06/08 07:44 AM Re: My New Water Filter Design [Re: Ben2World]
CamperMom Offline
member

Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1186
Loc: Eastern MA, USA
Guys-

A few things about chlorine bleach. It can be carcinogenic. I use it for laundry and some cleaning at home, but try to avoid inhaling fumes/vapors and skin contact. I don't want to ingest more of it than is necessary. I don't know if the carbon filters remove the carcinogenic properties with the taste. I would hope so. Sometime it is how a chemical reacts with other things that leads to carcinogens, so maybe those are still in the water. Again, I don't know on this one.

You can use less bleach (or Aqua Mira) if you increase the contact time, FYI. So, If you can let the water sit for double the time, such as overnight, the dosage can be reduced. This can save money, chemical exposure, AND our taste buds.

Check the label on your bleach bottle. The house brand from the "Dollar Store" may well have a lower concentration of chlorine than Clorox brand, and now bleach is being sold in the "Ultra," or concentrated form. You may wish to plan your number of drops accordingly. And, repeating from another post, make sure you use the plain, old-fashioned bleach, not the fancy, scented stuff.

Letting water sit uncovered for several hours can also allow chlorine to evaporate, too.

Regards,

CamperMom

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#102324 - 09/06/08 08:00 AM Re: My New Water Filter Design [Re: CamperMom]
Ben2World Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1754
Loc: So Cal
Good points, CamperMom!

More is not always better -- which is why I looked into various websites -- such as the American Red Cross and EPA -- for chlorine dosage. One good thing -- when following directions and using a reasonable quantity -- the carbon in the filter will remove (adsorb) leftover chlorine -- and thereby removing its taste as well.

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#102325 - 09/06/08 08:09 AM Re: My New Water Filter Design [Re: CamperMom]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Letting water sit uncovered for several hours can also allow chlorine to evaporate, too.


Our drinking water here is treated with cholrine and you can taste it. When filling/changing the fish bowl we let the water sit in the window for 24 hrs before putting the fish in it. I also have a small fish pond and when I top off the water, they kinda go into a mild shock for a few hours. I have lost fish that way. I think ingesting any chemicals is probably bad but what would be the result of getting sick from untreated water. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
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#102326 - 09/06/08 08:56 AM Pore Size = 2 microns or .2 microns? [Re: jasonklass]
DJ2 Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1347
Loc: Seattle, WA
Just checked REI's info on filters. They say the filters they sell range in pore size from .2 microns to .4 microns. Note the decimal point.

Is the aqua mira filter really 2 or 3 microns? Note the lack of decimal point.

In other words, is the pore size of the aqua mira about 10 times bigger than the pore size of the more commonly used filters?

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#102327 - 09/06/08 09:11 AM Re: Pore Size = 2 microns or .2 microns? [Re: DJ2]
DJ2 Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1347
Loc: Seattle, WA
Just checked Cabella's web site. Here's what they say:

"removes 99.9% of giardia, cryptosporidium and other contaminants down to 3 microns," (that's without a decimal point)

REI says the contaminants can be as small as .5 (with decimal) microns so that leaves a lot of room for bad things to go through the filter.

The words in the quote above don't really say the filter takes out 99.9% of the contaminants. It says it takes out 99.9% of the contaminants down to 3 microns in size. I could say, similarly, that a chain link fence fabric takes out 99.9% of the contaminants down to 2" in size.

Soooo, I like the gravity system idea but I would use a finer filter (and probably not bother with the micropur tablets in the Pacific Northwest).

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#102328 - 09/07/08 08:46 AM Sawyer Inline Filter [Re: jasonklass]
DJ2 Offline
member

Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 1347
Loc: Seattle, WA
The Sawyer Inline Filter may be a good alternative to the filter in your system. It filters down to .1 (with decimal) according to REI and weighs less than 2 ounces. Here's a link:

http://www.rei.com/product/778041

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#102329 - 09/07/08 10:59 AM Re: Sawyer Inline Filter [Re: DJ2]
bigfoot2 Offline
member

Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1432
Loc: Eugene , Oregon
Great choice, but more than twice the cost.

BF <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Hammockers aren't stuck up, they're just above it all.

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#102330 - 09/07/08 02:45 PM Re: Sawyer Inline Filter [Re: DJ2]
Ben2World Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/04
Posts: 1754
Loc: So Cal
DJ2:

The numbers are correct. Quality pump filters have pore sizes of 0.2 (MSR) to 0.3 (Katadyn) micron. Sawyer purifier is 0.1, Seychelle inline is 2.0 and the AquaMira Frontier Pro is 3.0. I would NOT use either a Seychelle or a Frontier Pro all by itself. A filter that can't block out bacteria reliably is a toy. However, these "toys" can still serve a purpose if paired with chemicals.


I've used the Sawyer in-line purifier. Two big negatives (for me):

1. No carbon element -- meaning the purifier cannot improve water taste by adsorbing chemicals. If the water source tastes bad -- or if you've added chemicals for treatment -- then the water passing through the purifier will still carry the bad taste.

2. Priming -- this purifier requires priming with a water faucet attachment before each use -- not just the first time when new -- but EVERY TIME after it's been dry in-between uses! If you don't, then water will come out tediously slow -- be it sucking or using as gravity feed. The force of a faucet is required to thoroughly prime (wet out) the filter -- priming CANNOT be done by giving the thing a few extra suckings while in the field.

No. 2 essentially renders the filter's dry weight as meaningless. The true carry weight is the weight of the filter soaked -- I don't remember what that was exactly any more, but likely around 6-7 ounces.

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#102331 - 12/08/08 04:13 PM Re: My New Water Filter Design [Re: CamperMom]
cistchap Offline


Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 4
Loc: KY
When using a filter, I prefer to NOT use a chemical. Instead I use coloidal silver. Silver has been used for generations to kill bacteria including Giardia and Crypto. I understand it kills on contact and wait times are reduced as well as being unaffected as much by temp. I have a link somewhere to NASAs use of silver in the space program.
I have sampled water from a pool of water containing crypto. I gave it to a lab tech in the water business to confirm this. We added five drops of CS 500 ppm to 8oz container and the crypto was dead in 2 min (room temp). We did not retest on larger quantities though.
Although there was Crypto in the water, I want to explain that it was NOT abundant!
It was estimated that there was a VERY small concentration in the gallon we collected. However, since it only take one protozoa to cause problems.....

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#102332 - 12/08/08 06:16 PM Re: My New Water Filter Design [Re: cistchap]
lori Offline
member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 2801
Quote:
When using a filter, I prefer to NOT use a chemical. Instead I use coloidal silver. Silver has been used for generations to kill bacteria including Giardia and Crypto.


So you don't trust the filter? I'm given to understand filters usually work fine on Giardia and Crypto and fail at virii, which are killed rapidly by a few drops of chemistry.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki

http://hikeandbackpack.com

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#102333 - 12/09/08 11:08 PM Re: My New Water Filter Design [Re: cistchap]
ronin Offline
member

Registered: 08/09/04
Posts: 41
Quote:
When using a filter, I prefer to NOT use a chemical. Instead I use coloidal silver. Silver has been used for generations to kill bacteria including Giardia and Crypto. I understand it kills on contact and wait times are reduced as well as being unaffected as much by temp. I have a link somewhere to NASAs use of silver in the space program.
I have sampled water from a pool of water containing crypto. I gave it to a lab tech in the water business to confirm this. We added five drops of CS 500 ppm to 8oz container and the crypto was dead in 2 min (room temp). We did not retest on larger quantities though.
Although there was Crypto in the water, I want to explain that it was NOT abundant!
It was estimated that there was a VERY small concentration in the gallon we collected. However, since it only take one protozoa to cause problems.....


I call BS on this one.

Peace,

Richard.

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#102334 - 12/10/08 03:39 PM Re: My New Water Filter Design [Re: ronin]
cistchap Offline


Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 4
Loc: KY
http://www.doulton.ca/silver.html

Call what you want. Read the above material and do some research BEFORE you call anything. Unfortunatly I cannot produce findings for my experiment. It was not done on an official basis however anytime you want to join me for a drink of infected water treated with silver I'll drink the first glass.

[color:"red"]"It was NASA that first designed an ionization system for their Apollo flights. The Johnson Space Center developed an electrolytic silver ion generator only slightly larger than a cigarette pack and weighing only 9 ounces. This small ionizer required minimal power and no astronaut monitoring. Mounted at various locations in the potable water supply and wastewater systems, the ionizer would dispense silver ions to eliminate bacteria and viruses. In 1962, silver was approved for use in drinking water by the U.S. Public Health Service.

Today, copper is recognized as one of the best algaecide killers known to man. Oxides and sulfates of copper are used for pesticides, algaecides and fungicides. Pool stores worldwide sell copper based algaecide to kill black algae - the toughest of all to kill.

Silver has been known as an effective bacteria and virus killer for centuries. Silver sulphate is the standard antibacterial treatment for burns and any type or an open wound, and is used to protect the eyes of newborns. Activated carbon filters, for drinking water purification, are impregnated with silver to prevent bacterial build-up. Silver is used as the drinking water purification for half the world's airlines and in over 1,000 passenger ships. Soft drink, beer, liquor, wine and other beverages are rendered safe and more palatable by the addition of silver in over 60 countries."[/color]


taken from : www.biophysica.com/water.html

also read www.edc-cu.org/pdf/Silver%20Paper.pdf



I don't put myself at unnecessary risk in the wild. I've traveled many miles and have stayed in the wilderness far beyond the trails that most people walk on. I teach outdoor survival skills and I know what I'm talking about.

Let's have that drink


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#102335 - 12/10/08 03:43 PM Re: My New Water Filter Design [Re: lori]
cistchap Offline


Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 4
Loc: KY
Read the post. "WHEN USING A FILTER....... I just do not add chemical to the water. In my opinion it's more dangerous than the water sometimes. I use silver.

If you do not have a filter that will catch the smaller protozoa than you need to use another method in combination perhaps. If you wish, you can simply boil the water.

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#102336 - 12/11/08 04:34 PM Re: My New Water Filter Design [Re: cistchap]
chaz Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 1149
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
"It was NASA that first designed an ionization system for their Apollo flights. The Johnson Space Center developed an electrolytic silver ion generator only slightly larger than a cigarette pack and weighing only 9 ounces. This small ionizer required minimal power and no astronaut monitoring. Mounted at various locations in the potable water supply and wastewater systems, the ionizer would dispense silver ions to eliminate bacteria and viruses. In 1962, silver was approved for use in drinking water by the U.S. Public Health Service.

Today, copper is recognized as one of the best algaecide killers known to man. Oxides and sulfates of copper are used for pesticides, algaecides and fungicides. Pool stores worldwide sell copper based algaecide to kill black algae - the toughest of all to kill.

Silver has been known as an effective bacteria and virus killer for centuries. Silver sulphate is the standard antibacterial treatment for burns and any type or an open wound, and is used to protect the eyes of newborns. Activated carbon filters, for drinking water purification, are impregnated with silver to prevent bacterial build-up. Silver is used as the drinking water purification for half the world's airlines and in over 1,000 passenger ships. Soft drink, beer, liquor, wine and other beverages are rendered safe and more palatable by the addition of silver in over 60 countries."


Wow! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />Compelling information...... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I'm sold. What filters for Bpacking use silver? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Enjoy your next trip...

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#102337 - 12/11/08 05:48 PM Re: My New Water Filter Design [Re: chaz]
cistchap Offline


Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 4
Loc: KY
I have never researched which filters are available with this feature outside of the studies done in the sited links. All I do is dip water from a creek, add 10 - 15 drops of coloidal silver 500ppm to a quart. If the water is very questionable I filter it with MSR after 10 min.
Usually I just drink it after 10 - 15 min of swirling it around.
I've taken water from still water and moving rivers. I only got sick once in my life from water(Giardia). I was in Cancun Mexico. I had no silver with me. Thats somewhat ironic because Mexico is the worlds largest silver producer!

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