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#110357 - 01/29/09 06:02 PM Re: observation of Light backpackers TOILET???? [Re: chaz]
sabre11004 Offline
member

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 513
Loc: Tennessee
I think that getting to ultra-light is a process. I have been getting lighter for years now and I think that I can still go a little lighter and be comfortable. I can remember back in the 70's we all carried 50-60lb packs and thought that it was okay. Of course we were a lot younger and stronger then too so I guess we really did think that we were doing the best that we could do..."NOT".. I got lost south of Cades Cove back in the 70's with four or five friends and I think we were all glad that we had those bigger packs after being out 5-6 days longer than anticipated. We were inexperienced and we were not prepared for what we encountered and it was just a little bit of a messed up trip for the last 5-6 days...But any way, it was certainly a great lesson in being prepared and I don't think that I have ever had any where near the trouble that we had on that trip since then either....sasbre11004....

The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there !!!!
_________________________
The first step that you take will be one of those that get you there 1!!!!!

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#115369 - 05/02/09 11:06 PM Re: Recent observation of Light backpackers [Re: MattnID]
trekkin Offline
member

Registered: 02/05/07
Posts: 19
Loc: PNW
I just returned from a section hike on the AT, Springer Mtn to Hot Springs, NC. Saw and got to know dozens of fledging thru hikers. Almost all had fairly heavy 35-55 lb packs. Most used alpine ascent type backpacks by Gregory or Osprey that have whopping suspension systems for carrying a lot of weight. Maybe 10% of the hikers we saw used lightweight gear, like vapor trail, ULA, or Golite packs. We were the only ones I saw using tarptents; everyone else used heavier tents with flys and tons of poles.

We walked with a man for two days who used a pack with an 85 liter capacity, and it was full! (He complained of knee problems).

Several of these heavyweight backpackers left the trail around Fontana Dam; 160 miles in.

Our packs were 24-26 lbs; not ultralight but served us well. We hiked 273 miles in 20 days.

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#115630 - 05/07/09 03:20 PM Re: Recent observation of Light backpackers [Re: trekkin]
TheJD Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Wisconsin
I've recently taken an interest in backpacking and am currently gathering my gear and of course doing all the research I can. The thing with me is I'm not really into backpacking for the backpacking part. My preference is spending a day or two hiking into remote wilderness and setting up a "base camp" where I'll remain for 3-4 days. From the base camp I can fish, day hike, or have little fires by myself. I really want to be alone in the wilderness and really enjoy it and not just walk through it. For me, being able to fish and cook it over a fire or just randomly explore is worth the extra weight. My pack right now is about 28# (food/water not included). But that includes fishing equipment, wood gathering tools and a small coffee maker.

Now, if I ever do actually backpack or thru-hike a trail, most of my weight would get dropped because I wouldn't need those little extras because I wouldn't have the time.

For me, I understand why people go light or UL. Less weight on your back, the more you can enjoy and the faster you can go. But for others it's all about actually enjoying the outdoors and not just being concerned with your speed.

-JD

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#116820 - 06/02/09 01:49 PM Re: Recent observation of Light backpackers [Re: wandering_daisy]
cpetterson Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Alberta
The main reason I have a 20 lb pack right now is that I have a very heavy tent (4 lbs) and a heavy sleeping bag (3 lbs - 0C) and don't have much money for anything else at the moment.

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#118435 - 07/17/09 03:36 PM Re: Recent observation of Light backpackers [Re: MattnID]
Milkyway Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/20/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Illinois, USA
I agree with Matt about the once or twice a year backpacker. I put myself in that class. I started out at age 16 on an OB course (it was either that or military school), where we lugged 80 lb canoes on our shoulders over 1/2 mile portages. I weighed about 120 pounds back then, so arduous "lugging" and "backpacking" were hardwired in me for quite some time. I just never thought about weight much. My wife is a NOLS grad and we've gone backpacking about every third year (Yellowstone, Newfoundland, Pecos Wilderness, Porcupine Mts, Jasper). The last trip to Jasper was painful for me as I'm now over 50. There I was with my Kelty Super Tioga carrying a four-person Eureka tent you could stand up in. I should mention I've had an incomplete spinal cord injury for 35 years, so balance is a bit tricky (thank god for trekking poles). We decided to go to Glacier this year and I went out to the garage to sort through the gear, remembering past sufferings. I thought there had to be a better way to do this and started looking around and doing a little research. I saw an article in Backpacker about load lightening on the AT. One of the few advantages of my aging is more expendable income, so the Kelty packs are on the shelf replaced with Granite Gear, a couple of Thermarest Neo-Airs. The Eureka was replaced with a Big Agnes Copper Spur and an XT Lightning (there are 5 of us now). The Sierra Designs synthetic bags gave way to Feathered Friends. There's still a ways to go to lighten up and I am learning a helluva lot from all of your knowledge on this forum. So thanks a lot people!! I now believe I can keep wandering into the wilderness for years to come and that makes me really happy.

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#119681 - 08/21/09 09:30 PM Re: Recent observation of Light backpackers [Re: wandering_daisy]
sparkyy Offline
member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 20
Loc: southern california
In my local mountains, most people are on the lighter side, and some appear to be lightweight. Most of the people that I meet that seem overstuffed are boy scouts and people from out of state. I think the locals here have caught on pretty well. I never have picked up packs, but I can usually tell how heavy a pack is by the expression on peoples faces and how they carry it.

I do have to say, my old external frame pack from boy scouts is 4 lbs. Not bad, and it feels good. I have thought about taking it out just for shits and giggles to compare to my G4.

Pack weight is related to so many factors, and many can boil down to personal factors.


Edited by sparkyy (08/21/09 09:49 PM)

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#119703 - 08/22/09 03:59 PM Re: Recent observation of Light backpackers [Re: sparkyy]
Folkalist Offline
member

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 374
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
And where would your local mountains be? You don't have any information in your profile.
_________________________
Why am I online instead of hiking?

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#120782 - 09/12/09 03:53 PM Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: wandering_daisy]
dash4689 Offline
member

Registered: 07/11/09
Posts: 18
Loc: TX
In the 70's I routinely packed 60+ lbs. While that hurt, I didn't know any better. Since then, I have learned a lot and the technology has improved greatly.

Now my base pack weight is 20 lbs before water and food (1.5 lbs a day) resulting in around 30 lbs at the start. This gives me all I need to be comfortable in most any weather I am likely to encounter: temperature 25-90 degrees F, and rain, snow, and winds to 40 MPH, all of which I have experienced during the summer in the high country of Utah, Colorado, Idaho and Wyoming. Also Belize and Mexico.

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#132880 - 04/28/10 07:43 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: dash4689]
TerraPathic Offline
member

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Kentucky
Holy Crap!!!!
Everyone is right if you are having fun.
Your pack weight xxxx no, let me just say this....my pack weight has never been a certain number. I have backpacked in for one night, two nights, three nights, four nights, five nights, with one kid, with two kids, with kids at 5 years old, 6 years old, 7 years old, etc., with a chance to fish, with a chance to hunt, etc. If you take all variables and multiply each against each other, my weight has run the gamut, not to mention buying new lighter gear as time goes on. I think experience determines what you can live without. You also have the excersise factor. I used to carry more than I needed to just for the excercise...notice I said used to.
_________________________
When you truly understand nature, there is no such thing as a bad day.

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#132890 - 04/28/10 10:36 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: TerraPathic]
ChrisFol Offline
member

Registered: 07/23/09
Posts: 387
Loc: Denver, Colordo
Originally Posted By TerraPathic
Holy Crap!!!!
Everyone is right if you are having fun.
Your pack weight xxxx no, let me just say this....my pack weight has never been a certain number. I have backpacked in for one night, two nights, three nights, four nights, five nights, with one kid, with two kids, with kids at 5 years old, 6 years old, 7 years old, etc., with a chance to fish, with a chance to hunt, etc. If you take all variables and multiply each against each other, my weight has run the gamut, not to mention buying new lighter gear as time goes on. I think experience determines what you can live without. You also have the excersise factor. I used to carry more than I needed to just for the excercise...notice I said used to.


To me carrying a lighter pack allows me to have more fun. Instead of hiking 15miles and my mind being consitantly focused on the pack digging into my shoulders, my aching back and constantly praying for that 5 minute break to get the dam thing off my back, I find that carrying less, means that I enjoy the hike the more. Not only that but it allows the added variables of going with my wife, dog or bringing a long the fly-fishing gear or staying out for 5, 6 7 nights at a time less of a hassle because I am still never carrying more than 25lbs, which is a world away from the 35-45lbs that I used to carry.

Now on those five minutes of rest I can actually enjoy what I came to mountains for.

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#132894 - 04/28/10 11:23 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: ChrisFol]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2752
Loc: California
I am in favor of a lighter pack. But last summer by the end of nearly 60 days out, in mostly stormy weather, my light weight tent just plain wore out, so I packed in the 5 pound 2-man tent. Must say, Wow! what luxury. I enjoyed every minute in it. This was only a 5-day trip so the pack weight was not terrible. Once in a while, I go "whole-hog". Most of the time trail comfort is more important to me than camp comfort, but this time, I was ready for camp comfort. Never regretted the extra weight.

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#132917 - 04/29/10 10:42 AM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: wandering_daisy]
BarryP Offline
member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 1574
Loc: Eastern Idaho
WD,
Wow, this thread has been going on for a while.
You made a very good point: Sometimes you lean toward trail comfort; sometimes camp comfort.
You probably posted it somewhere, but I can’t remember. You just stated “…my light weight tent just plain wore out”

Which tent were you using?

Thanx,
-Barry

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#132941 - 04/29/10 05:27 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: BarryP]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2752
Loc: California
It was a MSR Miro-Zoid that I got on sale at Sport Chalet for $100. It was 2.5 pounds (counting all stakes and string). It was light due to its small size, not material. It was regular coated nylon. The fly was absorbing moisture and slowly leaking in large swaths- not on seams, which I had sealed. Could easily have been ultraviolet deterioration. This also happened to another tent fly I had used for many years. It is a shame, to me, that manufacturers do not offer replacement flys alone. I do a lot of high altitude trips. Once in a klutzy moment, actually fell on the tent and bent the poles. I also have set it up under branches, used fires near it - generally abused the poor tent. It had been my main tent for about 5 years - probably had a couple hundred nights out. Also had it on coast hikes - I am not sure what repeated salt exposure does to a tent.

I now have a Tarp Tent Moment. Have not used it yet. I hope it lasts a few years. I am rather hard on gear, and the TarpTent seems a bit more fragile.

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#132945 - 04/29/10 06:56 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: wandering_daisy]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Yes this thread has been around for a long time. I think one thing coming out of it all is this: We all know how to carry less than we did in the good olde days. Lighter weight is easier to carry. The very lightest stuff has limited life expectancy and comfort, they are some of the trade offs for weight. Those who concentrate on trail weight, miss out on camping comfort. Life is a pendulum, we change our minds, sometimes we want the minimum weight, sometimes we want comfort. I want both and I don't mind carrying 20 to 25 pounds to achieve that. The "in camp" part is more important to ME.
Jim smile
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#133069 - 05/01/10 12:15 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: Jimshaw]
Paha Sahpa Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Middle of Wyoming and Black Hi...
You know after reading a lot of these threads and the benefits of going light I want to stop and ask. Are any of you mountaineering? If so, what are some suggestions that can be useful taking into account that the pack will just HAVE to have some weight on it? I mean besides nine to fifteen days of food I am taking my rope, crampons, ice-axe, sometimes snowshoes, pickets, anchors, etc... Along with that my tent has to be bombproof in the wind, my sleeping bag at least 15 degrees (3 lbs), I must have a hefty mid-layer, gloves, boots, etc... My pack must be able to handle all of this too (I use a small gregory denali). What do you guys suggest?
I will give my gear list.
-North Face Spectrum 23 tent - (I am not in love w/ this tent at all but it can withstand some Wyoming wind alright).
-Gregory Denali pro small
-Sierra Designs Nitro 15 800 fill bag
-Jet boil stove
-Cabelas XPG light sleeping pad
-I use 2 gatorade bottles and one soft bladder for water
-Coffee filters w/ iodine for water treatment
-Basic polyester baselayers
-Black diamond fleece pants
-Mt. Hardware basic hiking pants
-Mt. Hrdware fleece pull-over
-Some sort of columbia synthetic puffy pull-over
-Cabelas gore-tex rain jackets and pants
-Redlakes Softshell technical jacket w/ hood (only bring this sometimes)
-Basic fleece beenie and waterproof rei gloves
-3 pairs of smart wool socks. sleeping, hiking, and for mittens over my gloves
-Black diamond raven ice axe
-CAMP strap crampons
-Chaco's (sometimes)
-Merrel thinsulate high boots
-Eidelrid 9.8 eagle dry rope (60m)
-Black Diamond momentum harness
-beeners, belay device, cordura for prussic
-food, water, deet, sunscreen, chapstick, bandana

I don't know, I am all for going light but man I am just having a hard time seeing where. Suggestions? A typical trip is 4-5 days of mild backpacking anywhere from 11000-13000 ft. One-3 days for summiting to allow for bad weather, etc... Three days back. I take my time getting to summit so I am rested and safe.
What do you guys think?




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#133073 - 05/01/10 01:46 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: Paha Sahpa]
wandering_daisy Offline
member

Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 2752
Loc: California
I have spent more time backpacking as part of climbing than just backpacking.

I am not familiar with Cabella stuff- I do think it is heavier than other brands. In spite of the hefty price, my mountaineering cloths are from the high end manufacturers such as ArcTerex or Marmot. We used the Mountain Hardware Approach (5 pounds) and found it very wind-worthy at high altitudes. In the Sierra I simply used a bivy sack - you actually spend little time in the sack if you are up at 3AM to start climbing.

The climbing gear is heavy so do as much as you can to reduce this. Depending on the type of climbing, you may be able to use a 50-m rope and light alpine rack. When I did serious 5th class backcountry climbing, my partner and I would use 50-meter double ropes. We primarily did this for quick retreat- less rappels use less anchors and you can get down faster in lightening storms. The total rope weight was more but we took less "emergency" gear for anchors. This also divided the rope weight - each of us carried one rope. We used very light wire-gate biners, Aliens, light spectra slings, stoppers. I rarely took any large pro unless I specifically knew it was needed. It was easy to find placements for small pro in the alpine environment. And consider the amount of pro. I climbed "Moon Goddess" a 5.8 8+pitch route on Temple Crage (in the Sierra) with a crazy eastern European climber - we did the entire climb with 8 small cams! And a rock fell on the rope half-way up and cut off 30 feet of rope and one cam got stuck so we lost that! I would not go this far (at one point he actually wedged rocks in cracks for pro and salvaged used slings that were on the route!). And if you climb well within your abilities, you really should not need a lot of gear. Alpine climbing is not sport climbing.

As for shoes, on rock climbs I approached and descended in light tennis shoes with SuperFeet inserts and used rock shoes on the route. I descended the Mountaineers Route on Whitney in tennis shoes. If doing this it is critical to time the descent before the snow hardens. I also rarely used crampons. One trick we did in the Sierra (snow here is called Sierra Cement) is kick steps up snow to the base of the climb the afternoon we get to base camp. Then in morning, when the snow is rock-hard we have nice flat steps to go up so do not need crampons.

I'm sure otherse here on this forum who climb have other good suggestions.




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#133078 - 05/01/10 03:27 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: wandering_daisy]
Paha Sahpa Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Middle of Wyoming and Black Hi...
Thanks, the cabelas jacket and stuff is pretty light. Just a basic goretex shell and thermarest makes the pad. Pretty light, lighter than my actual thermarest (trail).
Thanks for the suggestions on the climbing gear.
The bivy sack is tempting but there are two things that are keeping me from going this route. One is that on rainy/snowy days, while waiting around for the weather to clear up, it is nice to have a place to chill out. The second reason I like the tent is because sometimes I don't go alone, if you know what I mean.

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#133081 - 05/01/10 07:21 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: Paha Sahpa]
oldranger Offline
member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: California (southern)
Totally agree with WD about the greater utility of smaller pieces of pro. Use natural pro whenever feasible. There are some amazingly light climbing strength biners available now. Climbing primarily in the Southwest (especially Arizona) I found bivvy sacks to work very well, even on those "non-solo" occasions.

When I began climbing, the standard rope length was 120 feet, and some of that disappeared in the waist tie-in! Shorter ropes might work very well, although that is one area where I have gladly accepted the weight. When working in Canyon de Chelly, I always carried 20M of 9mm rope, even when just "hiking." It was long enough to be useful on many occasions.

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#133094 - 05/01/10 09:44 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: oldranger]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Paha, this isn't really a climbing forum but there are some ancient climbers here. smile You may find more up to date info elsewhere. As a mountaineer you know that you can only take a few bomproof pieces of "camping gear" so that you have room for climbing gear, but as an alpine type you do not require the extensive gear of a rock climber which is very heavy. If you ARE doing technical rock climbing at altitude, then you are way beyond my ability.

As a Bibler owner I was impressed with TNF tent, it seems bomber and light, and really not that expensive.

I'm not so certain about the jetboil. My own preference would be for a coleman Xtreme first or a nice white gas stove second.

Why carry hiking pants and goretex pants?

It just seems to me that you have too many pieces of clothing and if you get a puffy jacket with a weather tight shell, your rain shell won't have to large enough to go over it. But be sure that it has a fully insulated hood and carry a balaclava.

Gloves, good luck with only one pair, I often end up with three, one reserved just for sleeping in, then big warm ones, and lighter ones that you can climb in.

I don't know the BD raven, I carry a light Grivel. If you are going to chop steps and use light crampons like the Camps, you should have a real axe, and by that I mean 25 to 30 ounces of axe as momentum makes up for force.

The Eldrid is a nice rope, but why do you need 60m? The UIAA ratings are for vertical falls. How much do you weigh? the impact on the rope in a vertical fall is proportionate to your weight. Generally mountaineering you will not have a vertical fall, so I often carried one, half rope - 8mm.

As OR says, there are light beeners, and I always carry two belay devices, even if one is like an ATC and the other a figure 8, which give you multiple descending options as well. Forget prussics. Go with a wild country ascender, or if they aren't available, go with a similar skeleton ascending device (S).
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#133097 - 05/01/10 11:07 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: Jimshaw]
Paha Sahpa Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 5
Loc: Middle of Wyoming and Black Hi...
Thanks! I agree about using a thinner/shorter rope since that is such a heavy piece of gear. The one I have been using has been nice for summer sport climbing and I have only taken it up a summit once (Gannett). Purchasing a twin rope or something would probably work just fine. Good idea (maybe an expensive one though). You are right about the hiking pants. Probably a luxury item more than anything but I like them because they seem to be bug proof.. I am using the climbing gear I learned on and am very very familiar with so I don't really feel like replacing any of that. I use CAMP wire gate beeners I just took from my quickdraws.
From what I am hearing I need a nice puffy (down?) midlayer? What do you guys like? Patagonia micro-puff? Sierra Designs?
I know there are probably experts out there for alpine stuff but here in Wyoming more than half the hike is below tree line followed by just a few days of glacier and rock. Looking at the posts you guys have some crazy light rigs.

Jimshaw- Does your Bibler have condensation problems?

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#133115 - 05/02/10 12:23 PM Re: Less weight but greater safety and comfort. [Re: Paha Sahpa]
Jimshaw Offline
member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 3938
Loc: Bend, Oregon
Paha said
"Jimshaw- Does your Bibler have condensation problems? "
NNNNnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooo... smile Thats one of the reasons for buying it, but it is one of the old fuzzy inner "Toddtex" tents. Its the driest tent I've ever used. I liked the roof vent on the TNF spectrum tent that you mentioned. Most of my tents are single wall, they are lighter, easier to set up and in my opinion they vent better if they have roof vents, than double walled tents, of course they don't have the screen inner tent, however you mentioned being pinned down in a storm, and you definitely DO NOT want a tent with screen for spindrift to blow through. In a storm above treeline, single walled tents are nice because you don't have to pitch basically two tents while getting the inner one wet. My ElDorado can be pitched from the inside. In a blizzard I just pull it over me and lay down in it, then pitch the poles from the inside and I go out later and stake it down., unless its super windy, then I may stake the two front tie outs first with my skis.
Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.

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#150028 - 05/08/11 01:01 AM Re: Recent observation of Light backpackers [Re: wandering_daisy]
jwild Offline
member

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 85
Originally Posted By wandering_daisy
We just returned from a 6-day loop from Edison Lake, with 2 days on the JMT (same as PCT here). We were going north; seems like all the JMT guys were going south, so we passed tons of backpackers. Out of all the hikers (perhaps 30 groups), only one couple looked like they were going "light". We lifted packs on the boat taxi: no light weight hikers here! One JMT hiker was carrying a 5-pound 2-man tent just for himself. I do not think it has rained for a month in the Sierra. Mosquitoes are practically nil right now too. Lots of heavy Nalgene water bottles. Lots of heavy-duty sleeping pads. Lots of 6-pound Gregory packs.

On the positive side, several of those camped at the Vermillion Lodge were going light- a Tarptent single Rainbow tent, a poncho set up, a bivy. So the message is getting out, however slowly. It seems to boil down to personal choice- which is good- we do live in a free country. There is an incredible reluctance go trade campsite creature comforts for all-day walking comfort. And I am far from light myself. I still have about 28-30 pounds on my back starting a 10-day trip.



I purchased my 6lb Gregory pack because after trying on every pack I could find in a 200 mile radius it was the most comfortable. My baltoro is so comfy the extra weight from my two pints (no they are not in glass) of booze is unnoticeable cool I think 3 of the 6 pounds of this bag is cushioning lol
_________________________
“Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.”

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#150160 - 05/10/11 09:31 PM Re: Recent observation of Light backpackers [Re: wandering_daisy]
Kent W Offline
member

Registered: 10/15/09
Posts: 607
Loc: IL.
Yes, On my recent trip in the smokies and a few miles on the AT I was one of the lighter ones and am still heavy! One poor fool was carrying a guitar! Granted he could play one but wow!
I was lighter I felt than alot of tru hikers. My packs weighs 18 oz with back support. Bag 2 pounds, Pad 14.5 oz. Stove 2.1 ;ess fuel! Minus My Big Head, around 29 pounds I am ultralight baby! Fully loaded for 4 nights water food and ALL, AROUND 31 PDS! Light bye my spec? I am still not ulralight. I can say I dropped about 8 pounds from last years trip,and dam it felt good! Happy Trails

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#150274 - 05/13/11 09:02 PM Re: Recent observation of Light backpackers [Re: Spock]
JAK Offline
member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2569
Originally Posted By Spock
If everyone else was going UL, we couldn't feel smug.
It is not enough for me to be succeed personally.
My friends must fail. :-)

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#150321 - 05/15/11 04:07 AM Re: Recent observation of Light backpackers [Re: JAK]
jwild Offline
member

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 85
Originally Posted By JAK
Originally Posted By Spock
If everyone else was going UL, we couldn't feel smug.
It is not enough for me to be succeed personally.
My friends must fail. :-)


Nothing like a little friendly competition... until your all out days from anywhere and nobody has a snake bite kit or venom extractor and someone gets bit! just a lil food for thought crazy
_________________________
“Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.”

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