I find this pretty interesting because the one I made is pretty much a cube, and it's based on the old "Bakers' Tent" design. It seems this design might be making a comeback, and I think that's great.
This a new MSR design they talked about. I was thinking about making my next tent similar to this, but I keep talking myself out of it because having the door on the long side is really nice, but I still like this:
_________________________
It is one of the blessings of wilderness life that it shows us how few things we need in order to be perfectly happy.-- Horace Kephart
I had one tent that the flap is on the bottom and it annoyed me so much I took it back after one use. It is no fun having to freeze or let all the bugs in the tent just trying to put your boots on when venting the bottom and sticking your feet out works so much better.
I can tolerate the end-entry (I use the side/front entries on my Optic 3.5 and the Big Agnes Slater 3 about evenly) and I can't see where this particular design would work well with a side-entry. IF I only had one choice I'd prefer side.
Personally I agree with you that I don't like having the door attach on the bottom, but in this case there were reasons for it. With the new MSR Fly Light Tent's door, one reason why they did it this way was to allow for better air flow when it's raining. Another reason I was told is that the door can be much larger thus allowing easier access by more than one person. Doing it any other way would mean either a round door (small door), a D-style door (doesn't offer as good of ventilation options), and perhaps a larger door that does attach to the side rather than the ground (too much zipper to wear out). This, in the designer's minds, was the best solution for the design of the tent.
There were a couple of things I love about this tent. One, how easy it is to set up. By staking down the four corners, the last few things to do are put up the trekking poles and the small aluminum pole in the back. In my opinion, having put it up several times, it is much easier even when compared to a clipped tents. As far as staking it down, MSR is using the same aluminum oval 'grommets' they use in the Hubba NX series of tents. This means you can also tension the tent making it more taut, something often difficult with these types of shelters.
The other thing I love about the Fly Light, is how roomy it is! It's really a 2+ man tent. Being a solo backpacker, I'm hoping that they make a smaller version. However, having this much interior room means a very comfortable sleeping arrangement for 1lb 9oz.
I've also been impressed with the quality of construction and materials. It's really nice! It's ultralite, obviously, and uses 10D material with 10D mesh (lightest available) and a 20D floor, 1500mm coated floor (1000mm on the tent, 100% seam sealed). The coating is the same polyurethane we use in our Thermarest mattresses. It's called the Durashield coating. The benefit is incredibly durable, much more than standard polyurethane. What we've been told is it's near impossible to delaminate (storing it while wet and over exposure to UV rays will deteriorate the materials and coatings). Packing it up by stuffing it into a compressions sack or folding it in the same place will not effect the coating. We use this coating in all of MSR tents and is the best PU in the industry. I can't wait to get it out with it this spring!
_________________________
Believe, then you will Understand...
I have to say that having grown up in the 50's, Baker tents were common, like with the Boy Scouts. They were cotton canvas and some of the better ones were made from a tight weave, light canvas. It was common to have a 10+ pound tent for 2 people, imagine that today!
A Baker tent was designed to be used close to a campfire, they were pretty comfortable to sleep in. There is no advantage to a nylon or Dacron version on the Baker design, you can't possibly be close enough to a fire to take real advantage of the shape of the tent.
So, while cool looking this new tent is impractical if you ask me.
I've also been impressed with the quality of construction and materials. It's really nice! It's ultralite, obviously, and uses 10D material with 10D mesh (lightest available) and a 20D floor, 1500mm coated floor (1000mm on the tent, 100% seam sealed).
I see this reference often: "1500mm coating" etc. etc. Well, thats' 1.5 meters and 1 meter on the tent. What exactly are they referring to? 1.5 and 1 meter of what? The coatings? If so, that's one heck of a weird way to measure something.
Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
Originally Posted By Bill67
A Baker tent was designed to be used close to a campfire, they were pretty comfortable to sleep in. There is no advantage to a nylon or Dacron version on the Baker design, you can't possibly be close enough to a fire to take real advantage of the shape of the tent.
So, while cool looking this new tent is impractical if you ask me.
It's true these particular tents weren't meant to be used with a campfire, but there are advantages to these variations on a Baker's Tent which I've come to really appreciate, and the practical functionality is exactly what I'm impressed with.
They're roomy and easy to get in and out of, and those new materials make them very light.
The design provides for a lot of variation in how you set them up. You can use tent poles, trekking poles, sticks, or just run guy lines to trees.
It's pretty nice to sit just inside the tent, on the floor, under the awning with the door wide open and make coffee and breakfast, or dinner, and have the big view of the outdoors while you enjoy it.
They are a lot more weather worthy than one might expect.
Personally, I think that tent designs trended away from the simple aesthetics of the "cube" due to a few main factors: Cheap fiberglass poles made for fast and easy set up of freestanding dome style tents, and fashion. But dome style tents sacrifice comfort. This is often overlooked because they've been in use for so long now that they are the norm.
The MSR Fast Stash is another design I like a lot.
Now, the ease and comfort these "cube" designs provide is not apparent in photos, or even in written descriptions, but it's there. I found that out only by using one. And to be fair, MSR and others can't make a campfire tent because someone will catch it on fire and blame them. But I can make one because I can only blame myself if I catch it on fire, so I did (make one, not catch it fire ).
Here, in the Ozarks, the tent above, while I'll admit is pretty hillbilly in design, actually works astoundingly well in practice. It proves the "Supershelter" concept beyond any doubt, and I've found it to be more comfortable than any tent I've used.
MSR is rethinking tent designs. That they would go back and look at why the Baker's tent was so popular for so long makes a lot of sense. Shrinking it down for backpacking does too. I'm impressed
Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
This is a hydrostatic test number. It is the height of a column of water that will not leak through the fabric. In other words, stretch out the fabric, stand a tube on it, start filling it with water and measure the height at which the fabric starts to leak. 1500 is pretty much waterproof. Google for more info.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.
Ahh, got it. Just never thought of using a hydrostatic test to describe the material. I'm used to using them for other things. Makes a lot more sense now. Thanks! I wonder if it would really hold off 1.5 meters worth of water at 8.3lbs per gallon but if I'm in that kind of a storm I'm more interested in looking for an Ark than worrying about my tent! <grin>
Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Originally Posted By AdventureMyk
Ahh, got it. Just never thought of using a hydrostatic test to describe the material. I'm used to using them for other things. Makes a lot more sense now. Thanks! I wonder if it would really hold off 1.5 meters worth of water at 8.3lbs per gallon but if I'm in that kind of a storm I'm more interested in looking for an Ark than worrying about my tent! <grin>
Ah, but what's the pressure of a drop of water falling at terminal velocity? More than an equivalent volume of standing water, I'm sure.
_________________________
The journey is more important than the destination.
Another good point. With all the ice and such we have here in East Tn right now I wonder if I could have set up a tent ahead of time, then taken it down and still had a perfect ice tent. Melting might get things damp though...
Ah, but what's the pressure of a drop of water falling at terminal velocity? More than an equivalent volume of standing water, I'm sure.
I've never done the calculation before, but its pretty simple.
(I can show the derivation if anyone is interested, but) the equation to calculate the equivalent pressure from a column of water to a rain drop at a velocity is:
h = v^2/(2g)
g = acceleration of gravity = 9.81 m/s^2 = 32.2 ft/s^2
Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
I remember the 32 feet per second per second from high school physics (I refuse to say how long ago that was, but it was a LONG time), but the rest of it might as well be in Martian!
Edited by OregonMouse (02/18/1508:04 PM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey
Registered: 01/16/13
Posts: 913
Loc: Nacogdoches, TX, USA
Nice, BZH! So if I'm understanding it correctly, the take away is that the equivalent pressure is anywhere from 200mm to 4100mm, depending on the speed of the rain drop. That just goes to show how potentially insufficient a tent could be, since they typically have a treatment rated anywhere from 500mm (for a cheapie) to 2000mm. Of course, we know, in practice, a higher rating isn't (usually) needed, which lead me to believe rain drops traveling that fast are pretty rare. I wonder if that's only the wind driven ones that get up to those speeds?
Sorry, I really will try to stop hijacking this thread now.
_________________________
The journey is more important than the destination.
hmmm.... the take-away is a bit more difficult. In short you understand it correctly. I would think a big heavy rainstorm will contain drops that hit a tent at sufficient velocity to push water through its fabric. Obviously that rain drop will not pass through unabated. I think the dynamics of what happens when that drop hits the fabric and interacts with water from other drops is pretty complicated. Most of the water will run done the rain fly and drop out the bottom, though some will run down the inside the rain fly and still drop out the bottom. That is why tents have historically been made with fabrics (cotton) with very little water resistance and still functioned fine as a rainfly. It is also why you shouldn't touch the inner wall of the tent.
To flame the common core comment: I am a fan of common core. I actually did this problem first using common core techniques. I looked at the equation then looked up the velocity and quickly estimated in my head the highest pressure is slightly less than 4.5 m. I redid the calculation on my calculator to get a more precise answer. A lot of people don't like common core because they learned differently (I was taught differently). Just because a system is different doesn't its bad. Now, there is a lot of horrible examples of common core floating around. Those problems/solutions were created by people who don't understand common core math. Ok... I will get off my soap box now....
Registered: 02/27/15
Posts: 14
Loc: CT River Valley
Originally Posted By billstephenson
[quote=Bill67]A Baker tent was designed to be used close to a campfire, they were pretty comfortable to sleep in. There is no advantage to a nylon or Dacron version on the Baker design, you can't possibly be close enough to a fire to take real advantage of the shape of the tent.
But I can make one because I can only blame myself if I catch it on fire, so I did (make one, not catch it fire ).
Here, in the Ozarks, the tent above, while I'll admit is pretty hillbilly in design, actually works astoundingly well in practice. It proves the "Supershelter" concept beyond any doubt, and I've found it to be more comfortable than any tent I've used.
You leave the clear plastic down at bedtime and you will still pick up heat while the fire is burning down, correct? And the overhead will reflect even more heat (and some smoke?) back towards your sleeping area. What did you make that out of?
I have played with a Whelen style leanto over the years and always wanted a Baker to put a bug net on the front and maybe a stove jack for the cold...
Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 3917
Loc: Ozark Mountains in SW Missouri
It was pitching a tarp in a Whelen style leanto that really got me to thinking about a Baker's Tent too.
I made this out of SOL Emergency blankets. I taped most the seams with 3M clear fiber reinforced duct tape, the edges with fiber reinforced clear strapping tape, and the front panel is made with 2mil clear plastic "visqueen". I learned about that in another post from a member here who made a Pup tent out of SOL blankets.
The biggest downside is when you don't have a campfire going it builds up condensation bad if you've got that visqueen front pinned down. I haven't put any ventilation up near the ceiling yet, and that might help, but the nights I've spent down on the River banks it was ready to pour like rain inside by sunrise.
On the plus side, it will dry out really fast if you have the front facing the sunrise or you build a fire. You can even dry wet clothes in it on a damp day pretty quickly that way.
I can tell you that most of the people I've backpacked with probably think I'm a little off kilter because of that tent. It's about as Hobo looking as a tent can get. I'm well aware it's not pretty. I didn't spend any time at all trying to make it pretty. I just wanted to see how well it would work with a campfire.
As it turns out, I like it better than any tent I've ever had, and by a very long way too. I've been tempted to make one like it out of silnylon (I wouldn't use it with a campfire though), but it would be heavier. I'll probably make another like this, but before I do I'll cut some vents in this one to see how they might work out.
Registered: 02/27/15
Posts: 14
Loc: CT River Valley
The only time I camped with someone who had one (canvas) it was very fiddly getting the pitch right and taut, but wonderful space inside and the canvas was very good in a steady rain. I have wanted to DIY one from lighter weight canvas (7 oz) and either poly or nylon sides and then have a snap on, snap off (or zip or velcro) bug front that you could almost stand up in (for weeks of Adirondack black fly season) and maybe the same for a potential hot tent annex. Not somethat that you could walk in but would be good for my preferred canoe/kayak camping with my boys.
Always thought this style of tent would be a natural for a crossing poles design and make it more or less freestanding.
Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:
Affiliate Disclaimer: This forum is an affiliate of BackcountryGear.com, Amazon.com, R.E.I. and others. The product links herein are linked to their sites. If you follow these links to make a purchase, we may get a small commission. This is our only source of support for these forums. Thanks.!