Yes, I did a search on this before this post - most posts go into the discussion of down vs. synthetic.

I cannot have down anything - my husband is highly allergic to feathers - and the doctor has recommended that nothing down be kept in the house (or slept under.) He and I are both sad about this, but it is what it is.

So I've been doing a lot of backpacking this year, which I haven't done since I moved to Alaska (I've done tons of hiking though.) and my 45 degree bag isn't doing it anymore. I wake up shivering even in late June. I tried my husbands 32 degree bag too, and that wasn't any better. It could be one (or both) of two things - older synthetic bags (5+ years old) or the fact that in the alpine it is chilly. (oh and I sleep cold too.)

I wear full wool/synthetic thermals in the sleeping bag - with either a wool hood or wool hat on (and wonderful thick wool socks.)

So I'm looking at these bags -
Mountain Hardwear Lamina +0 - 3 lbs. 12 oz
Mont-Bell Super Spiral Burrow Bag #1 - their 15 degree F synthetic bag. - 3 lbs. 11 oz

Though when I searched through forums and someone recommended:
Integral Designs Renaissance - 20 degree F bag - 2lb 14oz - this is a tiny bit more than I wanted to spend, but still doable. I've just not heard of them before.

The MH and Mont-Bell are similar in price, which I like. MH might be a tad cooler than I need, but on the REI page it says "EN comfort (rating for women) 23 degrees Fahrenheit" and the next cooler bag is their 35 degree bag and it says 41 degrees. I'm concerned that 41 degrees is a bit too warm and I'll be cold. Though to be honest I could be over-reacting to being sick of being cold! It is usually in the 40s when I wake up, but the temp. can drop suddenly here - which has happened to me.

I want this bag for spring, summer and fall in Alaska - and to go inside my -20 bag when I camp in winter. It MUST have a draft collar. I'm using a barely there tent, if that makes a difference.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Mountain Hardwear because of the weight vs. temp. combination (oh and I have a 20% off coupon for rei too.), but the stretch of the Mont-Bell sounds great too.

Have any of you used either bag? Or am I missing a similar or lighter weight bag in the same temperature range?

Thank you in advance,

Heather

Sorry, Heather, I can't help with this one - I haven't used a synthetic bag in 15 years. (Didn't want you to think your post was being ignored.)

I take it that this is for when you and your husband go together? Why not have a custom 2-person quilt made for you? Or make a custom 2-person quilt? Then you could tailor it to what you need in terms of temp rating, and sharing body heat is a great way to stay warm.

Tim Marshall has a great reputation for making great quilts, and if you email him, he'll make something custom for you:
http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/

Just for the record, Integral Designs is a Canadian company I've dealt with through MEC. I've been extremely pleased with both their workmanship and their innovation.Others here have reported same reaction.

Mabybe this has changed recently but sleeping bag ratings seem lower than you would actually want to go in that bag. I bought a 25 below LL Bean bag after freezing in mid september at 8000 ft. in Wyoming. I've used it in fairly warm temperatures and it's fine. Actually got cold in it or close at times. Not sure if it would do the job in 25 below. To be fair, it is down and I've washed it so maybe the loft isn't what it should be, but i think it's fine.

Another time we got up at 3 in the morning and left because we got cold in 0 degree bags. Was cold out but I don't think it was 0. Not sure if we used a pad, though. So from what you're saying, unless the ratings have changed, I'd say get a 0 degree bag . A lot of places get below freezing in the summer, and this will give you a bit of room, temperature wise.

Haven't really tested it that I can remember, but have heard that for maximum warmth sleep naked. I don't want to do that, so I try to wear minimal clothing.

We backpack together about 50% of the time - I backpack alone more than he does - I hike slower than he does and he gets bored Well, unless we are snowmachining (alaskan for snowmobiling) and then I'm WAY out in front.

This is very interesting and will look into it.

Thanks!

Heather

Interesting (about the sleeping with minimal clothing) - I'd always heard you should sleep in dry wool clothing. Do you know why they suggest minimal clothing? Is that a just a summer or a winter thing? Maybe I'll try it on my next trip this summer - though my concern is always getting woken up early by a bear - course the bear is gonna be more interested in the bear cannister (food) down wind than what I'm wearing I guess.

Thanks!

Heather

Nonsense. I winter camp and always wear Capilene top and bottom and sometimes socks, booties, gloves and a balaclava. I can assure you, I am far warmer than if I was naked. For sleeping on snow, be sure to use two pads or one of the filled inflatable pads. I use a RidgeRest on top of a ThermoRest inflatable-both are full length pads.

As far as the OP's question, I would be wary of stuffing one bag in another. If the inner bag can't loft up, it will be next to useless. I have an overbag I use sometimes or I just toss my parka over my bag.



ID makes nice bags from what I hear, don't know anything about the others.

Have you tried it, Tom? Very counterintuitive but seems like I stripped down a bit and was warmer, hey, it's free to try. If it doesn't work, don't do it. FWIW the bear is naked too!

Was thinking about it, perhaps clothing would insulate you from the body heat trapped by the bag? Just a guess.

What about using your -20 bag maybe without a pad and opened up a bit? fun to buy new gear, though.

I have to wonder, in the interest of science, how often would your husband leave you behind or let you go backpacking alone if you followed my original instructions to a T? Perhaps you could mention a suggestion you heard on a forum. Could lead to things that can be dangerous to do in a tent in bear country, or so I've read. Remember, science can be fun. There I go meddling......again.

My -20 bag is.... HUGE. It is very warm though. I have a Ridge Rest for summers, some sort of old "self" inflatable thermarest and a Wiggy's 3/4 ground pad - and I use some mix of these in the winter. Snowmachining really has the whole can pack the kitchen sink thing going for it.

I donno - extracurricular activities in the wild were a lot more fun when we were kids... I think I'll leave mosquito butt to you young whipper-snappers.

Oh, and I ended up with a totally different sleeping bag - The North Face "Snowshoe" - it looks a bit warmer and 4 oz lighter. Really worried if it will fit in my very small backpack, but we'll see.

Thanks!

Hahaha! I hadn't thought about that. I'm so bad with women, shouldn't be a problem!

My -25 is lighter than my old el cheapo that I froze in so I just use that. Can get really sloppy as far as pads and so forth and still stay warm, so that's good. But yeah, might be nice to shave off a few pounds. Come to think of it, off me too!

Sounds like a good bag, Enjoy the new gear!

Haven't done it lately. The reason I don't think it works as well as when you are lightly dressed is that a bag only retains heat, it doesn't generate it. The more your body radiates heat, the more it has to generate to keep you at the same temperature. If you are naked, you have more air moving over your skin and that causes more heat loss. Trapping a thin layer of air under your thermals helps stop heat loss. It may work initially as you might warm the bag up quicker, but what that means is that once the air starts to cool down, which it inevitably will, you have to generate more heat.

Ever go scuba diving? It is the same principle, except water accelerates the heat loss. I have spent a lot time in water and I can assure you, a wetsuit, even a thin one is far warmer than without one. The same thing applies to bags and thermal underwear.

By the way, bears aren't naked, they are covered with fur, which acts as their insulation, along with layers of fat underneath. If your theory was correct, bears wouldn't need fur. The same thing is true for dogs. Dogs with a lot of fur don't get as cold as ones with less.

Good thing I haven't waxed my back lately then..

Perilously close to TMI, Phat!

I would say definitely, not perilously.

I use a MH Lamina 45 and like it. Looking at buying a down bag for winter use as I don't have your limitation.

You may wish to consider using a US Military Sleep System. Bags are in about the same weight range as the bags you are looking at. Cheap if bought used/as surplus (Ebay). Can be bought new, but in the $400 range with the two bags (Green +30 and Black -10 - both bags are rated at -40) that go with the system.

Actually, I (finally) received my sleeping bag last night. I haven't used it yet, but it seems very nice! My eldest cat even approves (he tried to burrow in with me last night when I laid it out on the floor.) I can't wait to try it out (sans cat).

Thanks everyone!

Heather

Hey there Heather, I noticed you did not make mention of a sleeping pad. You lose a lot of heat when you are in contact with the cool ground.

I have a Ridge Rest for summers, some sort of old "self" inflatable thermarest and a Wiggy's 3/4 ground pad - and I use some mix of these in the winter.

=)

Heather

Tom, seems like I heard it, tried it, and was a bit warmer, so have more or less stuck with it. In both your examples there is one layer of insulation over bare skin. People generally don't wear shorts under a wetsuit, and dogs and bears have skin under their fur, nothing in between.

Of course, if you are wearing sweaty cotton from the hike in inside your bag, no contest, you'll be warmer taking that off. Perhaps even dry cotton. Never tried wool, though.

I can sympathize as my sinuses close up when I am around down so I have been a lifelong synthetic user. Northface makes good bags so you should be happy with yours. I have moved on to Wiggy's because the loft does hold up better Than Nf bags and I have options for sleeping with my wife and/or using the over bag when the temps really drop.

As for the base layer/no layer for sleeping,well, that is a personal and situational thing. The most important thing is to stay dry. A base layer must breath well or it will load up and you will get damp/cold. If you wear too much and sweat a lot to get rid of the excess heat then it is time to wear less. If you are dry but cold it may be time to add a layer. On the other hand, if you know you will be getting up in the coldest part of the night a warm base layer is a Godsend for comfort until you are back in the bag and in snug mode.