Having been at this for more than a few years (!), I'm increasingly amused by the discussions of lightweight v. comfortable - and how our targets have shifted. There have been a few posts, especially from newcomers, that got me thinking about this today.

Our current state of affairs has us debating whether a 20 pound pack load places too much emphasis on comfort - "I think, with a little work, you could probably pare your load to 15 or 16 pounds." "Yeah, but I like a lot of comfort when I camp, so I'll probably shoot for a 20 pound load and just suffer under the extra weight." (Yes, it's an exaggeration, and no, it's not intended to make fun of any particular person - merely create a mental image.)

I clearly remember in the 1980's when I carried 45 pounds for a weekend, and had the lightest pack in my group. We weren't even arguing about comfort in camp v. comfort on the trail; we were just using the lightest stuff available at the time. Then we won the Cold War in the 90's, and all those unemployed defense engineers turned their talents to civilian pursuits - and suddenly we had Keurigs, and LED everything, and cell phones, and laptops, and an internet. But best of all, we had titanium cookwear, miniaturized stoves and headlamps, 3 pound tents, and 3 pound packs - and 3-inch-thick, 1-pound sleeping pads.

Before, "ultralight" meant doing without, and 30 pounds was the ultralight threshold (I remember crossing it very well), and comfort wasn't part of the equation. Now, with new goodies, 20 pounds is where we start trading off weight for comfort.

As the poetess said, "These are the good old days, these arrraRR... the good old days."

Yeah, you're sure right. I'm thrilled to be just under 30lbs for a 2 nighter around here in the winter, and that's the sweet spot for comfort for me too. I'm not going to do much better than that. It sure feels like "Ultralight" to me, but I've always been a few years behind the curve.

As a side note, the young men I went camping with a few weeks ago were every bit as loaded down as we were at that age. I was glad to see that.

Really Glenn, Carly Simon? That's the best you can do? Hehehe
That's okay, I spent the evening in the gym listening to Procul Harum, Pink Floyd, Joe Cocker, The Animals, Kinks and Beatles, thanks to Pandora.

Two of the saddest moments of my life came at a Peter, Paul, & Mary concert a few years ago. First, Paul introduced one of the backup musicians as "a great golf partner" - ARRGHHH! Paul plays golf!! Then, Mary mentioned that she would collect her first Social Security check in a few months, and intended to keep it.

What happened to all the rebels of my youth?

I remember in the 70's when nobody ever thought of weighing a pack.

I always assumed discomfort meant a very high weight with LLLOONNNNGGGGG miles.

I had 30 lbs last weekend because I carried margaritas, bread fixings, extra food, and things I didn't really need, because I knew the miles would be shorter and so would the days - going to bed at six meant long hours in the sack. I was still lighter than three of the others bringing their budget gear, and heavier than the fellow with the gossamer gear pack, zpacks hexamid, neoair torso length, etc.

The people with the heaviest gear were the least comfortable. One newbie had a pack too small for her gear, and strung up a hydration pack on the outside of the backpack. Two others carried about 50 lbs apiece in fleece layers, food, a white gas stove kit, old Thermarest pads, and things like a Clinique zipper bag full of pills and bandaids and other items that could have been in a ziplock. Their old internal frame packs were 6 lbs apiece empty. Sleeping bags were rated to 20F, ten degrees lower than actual temps. All three were consistently cold despite all the effort they put into preparing.

I got chilled the first night through my own carelessness, but was warm the rest of the time, without carrying more than three layers. My 22 oz quilt did the job well, as did wool midweight and wool cap, and a turtle fur neck gaiter. The ultra lighter and his 20 lb load did pretty well, too, with similar gear, except I had a down jacket where he had two extra shirts - a girl vs guy thing, I think. He threw on his DriDucks when the sun set. He ate the same gooey paste stuff on tortillas every meal. I prefer to eat food reminiscent of actual meals and so had tuna sammies for lunch, dehydrated home cooked meals for dinner, baked bread, munched yummy snacks. And packed a large remote canister set and diffuser for the trouble, adding a few pounds but providing a little warm bread for the group.

I think comfort has more to do with experience which helps you choose the right gear for the job. Comfort is *not* damaging your ankle trying to carry too much. My ULA ultralight pack still carried the 30 lbs, and I injured nothing, because I hike a lot and the ol' body is accustomed to the work, the pack fits well, and when the lady's ankle went "ouch" I was able to hike ahead to reroute and pick up folks at a different trailhead to spare her further injury. Your body is part of the equation. Knowing your limits helps a lot.

Comfort should be disconnected from "heavy", IMO. Balance gear, weight, stamina, strength, skill, and tolerance levels to achieve real comfort.

It's both. Every trip we have taken has been a compromise between luxury and lightweight. (Notice I didn't say comfort, but luxury) On shorter trips we often take a nice bottle of wine (decanted into plastic to reduce weight) so that we can enjoy a glass of wine with our meals.

But then I don't think we've ever fit the current definition of UL. Our baseweights (with a bear canister) are 12-16 pounds each, and we carry about 40 pounds between the two of us for a 2-3 day trip, including food and water.

And wine.

I remember in the 70's when nobody ever thought of weighing a pack.

Wait a sec. What about Colin Fletcher, who confessed in The Complete Walker to clipping the paper tags off his tea bags to save weight? I also recall myself, inspired by Colin, using my parents' gram scale to weight every blessed item I took on a 21-day hike in 1972. Of course, my pack still weighed 63 lbs, because we didn't plan any resupply during our three weeks out.

How we weighed our packs has certainly changed. Like you, I followed Fletcher's example from the original Complete Walker and weighed, if not each item, then each significant item ("significant" meant eligible for replacement, like stove, pots, sleeping pad, sleeping bag, tent, and pack), and then weighed the fully loaded pack using the trusty "get on the bathroom scales with and without it" method, which got me to the nearest pound or so. We then expressed it as "My pack weighs about 34 pounds; what's yours weigh?"

Now, we're ruthlessly weighing out first aid kits and toilet paper, chasing after those last few ounces (or grams), and we speak with pride that "My pack weighs 17.3 pounds; last trip it weighed 17.6, but I replaced my pocketknife and got rid of 4 bandaids." (Again: mental image; no digs at anyone intended.)

And yes, I'm as guilty of it as anyone.

It's fun to laugh at ourselves over immaterial weight difference.

Nobody I ever hiked with in the 70's took teabags. We brought beer, whiskey or wine.

From 71 to 75, I hiked with the gear the military issued me.

That's what I'm saying, lots of beer, and big glass bottles of whiskey, and cast iron skillets and griddles because you don't want to make pancakes in a skillet, that's for cooking your potatoes and bacon.

I'm not that meticulous about weighing gear. Lately I weigh my pack fully loaded and if it gets over 30lbs I unpack it and see what I can leave out.

I still bring too much food for myself. I just can't help it. And I bring more clothes than I use. These are backups in case I screw up. I just can't completely give up that habit. I would probably lose 3lbs if I could give it up.

Back then, we would have a steak and baked potato to eat. We would marinate the steaks in some beer, saving some to drink with the whiskey. Back then, whiskey kept us warm. Now it gives people hypothermia. We always thought the chills the next morning were from the hangover.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I think they moved to Florida and bought condos. There are a few of them still around. Another golfer - Alice Cooper. He plays in a lot of celebrity tournaments; he's actually pretty good, I've seen him on TV a few times.

I have my backpack list notebook from the 70s/80s. Frankly it hasn't changed much - just the specific gear - different pack, different sleeping bag, pad etc etc, but the generic list hasn't really changed despite decades of angst over it... What ya take really depends on how long yer gonna be out and what you expect to run into. My baseweight in 1973 was 19 pounds, then add food and water. We saved weight by not having water filters, multitools, or extra warm clothes. Tents haven't changed much in 10,000 years, and camp fires work pretty much the same as they used to. From my perspective what has changed is that camping gear went from what you could find, to extremely high tech materials of a thickness we would NEVER have accepted years ago - with better goose down and better materials than wool for insulation. I only wear my 30 year old sierra designs 60/40 jacket now for barn duties. I do ski in my TNF mountain light jacket 1 - which must be 34 years old now and the zipper and snaps all work perfectly and so does the goretex shell.
Jim

I used to laugh at all the "old farts". Now I realize I'm not as bullet proof and my knees ache occasionally. (Problem is I'm in my mid 30s not really that old....)
I'm learning time is the ultimate equalizer.

And you don't have to go back much past the 70's to find those old rusted tin cans that we still find in the backcountry. Sardines and chile ruled the day

It seems like SPAM singles and ramen packs are the cuisine du jour.

In thirty years they will probably have invented the instant pizza like in Back to the Future II (which was supposed to be 2013).

Pizza pill followed by a beer fizzy pack!