Ok, I'm a frequent poster to remind people that in reality a hammock is not "lighter" because you could just sleep under the tarp if you were hardcore. and save the entire weight of the hammock.

Having said that, I'm perfectly willing to admit I'm not. I'm soft and squishy and like to sleep comfy. I recently got a gram scale (thanks to being on weight watchers) and decided to actually weigh my own rig individually. I was actually surprised. My hammock rig is lighter! Here's why:

First, the hammock rig:


Now, the above treeline rig:


So basically (since everything else I take is the same), I'm about 350 grams lighter with the hammock rig - now yes, that BA weighs a lot - but I'm *comfortable* in it. So I consider these two roughly equivalent.

Well, let's see....

I have a Blackbird hammock weighing in at 24 oz (double layer 1.1 riptstop, noseeum netting and zipper) and straps at 7.7 oz, a MacCat deluxe tarp at 13 oz, two 3 season down quilts at 20 oz apiece.... that's 84.7 ounces, or 2401 grams. If I exchange the MacCat for the winter tarp add about six ounces. This is good to below freezing, and if I take a ccf pad for extra insurance against colder temps or the unlikely going-to-ground emergency, add 7 more ounces.

If I took the Clip Flashlight instead, that's 54 ounces, plus the sleeping pad, a thermarest women's trail lite at 31 ounces (which does not begin to be comfortable) AND one of the quilts at 20 oz (or the bigger, bulkier Ray Way quilt at 1.5 - 2 lbs, not sure, as I made mine bigger than spec)... That's 105 ounces (2977 grams) if I take the smaller quilt, unless I'm being lousy at math today. Upgrading the thermarest to a DAM or Big Agnes airecore will only add to that, and would be necessary if I wanted to sleep for more than half an hour at a time.

I'm thinking of selling the Clip Flashlight. If I ever go where I can't hammock, I'll probably pick up a Shires Sublite or cowboy camp under my MacCat. I'm actually shocked that my hammock setup is really that light. Five pounds inclusive of insulation! And how much more comfort I gain is just graaaaavy.

“Big Agnes insulated Aircore
1103 grams”

Ah ha. I can see why you are salivating over that Neoair. Buying the small Neoair is 258g; a savings of 845g.
However, I don’t know how warm it is at 0C. I just bought one (and my wife found out ) and used it this past week at 50F (10C). I can definitely feel heat radiating back up to me. A 56g GG Thinlight may need to be added for 0C.

A little sidelight on that neoair; for a backsleeper, I found the small neoair much more comfortable than the horizontal-tube mats. But I have always struggled with horizontal-tubed mats while most others have not. And for a backpsleeper, I feel the small neoair is more comfortable than my short Prolite 4. It fills in (supports) the small of my back better than any other pad I have tried (dozens…).

-Barry

phat,

I consider my kit as a system. For example, I can carry a lighter bag when I carry a fleece hoodie that weighs 15 oz.

What pushes my base weight up is when water, food and/or gear pushes me into a pack with a heavier suspension.

In early May I did 4 nights on the ground in the Grand Canyon. On this trip I never had to carry more than 2 quarts of water so I was able to use a Six Moon Designs Essence. My pad was a BA Air Core, but I needed to carry a ccf pad for a ground cloth and to use to lounge in camp. My shelter was a MLD eVent biy, but I carried an umbellla for a sun shade.

Generally my Grand Canyon ground kit is heavy because I carry shade and need a heavy pack for water.

Generally my alpine ground kit is heavy because I carry a robust shelter and warmer clothes.

I can still sleep on a ccf pad, BUT not until the third night. Vitamin I and monster miles are a cure for insomnia, but what about us weekend warriors?

With groups I almost always have the lowest base weight. What I want is a balance between weight, comfort and utility.

I do not always carry my lightest hammock. For me an a-sym hammock like the Hennessy or Warbonnet is more comfortable, but they are heavier than a Speer type hammock. A double layer hammock like Claytor or Warbonnet make it easy to use ccf pads for bottom insulation, but also are heavier than simple end gathered hammocks.

I try not to carry weight without a purpose. Sometimes it makes sense to carry climbing gear, or winter gear, or a lot of water. Most of the time it makes sense for me to carry the extra pound to sleep in a hammock.

phat, why don't you sleep under your hammock tarp when on the ground? Bugs? Water on ground? The tarp tent is just cool?

Food,
What a great quote: "I can still sleep on a ccf pad, BUT not until the third night. Vitamin I and monster miles are a cure for insomnia, but what about us weekend warriors?" That's a perfect description of me too.

Phat,
A gram scale! Now you have to reweigh EVERYTHING! LOL That sounds like lots of fun for a nerd like myself! Even with a thermarest and my monster MLD Tarp, I'm within a 1oz difference. This is an interesting approach though, because I just don't have any ground gear that is nearly as comfortable. I'd have to pick up lbs worth of pads to come close.

Bugs and Wind.

Flat tarps suck in exposed alpine with no trees, and they don't protect you from mosquitos and blackflies. You treasonous southerners of the small pints don't understand real bugs

I see you also have a pretty good idea of why I haven't bought one yet

"Bugs and Wind."

I've had a couple of recent experiences that upgraded my respect for the "wind" factor there (I already respected the bug factor).

It's not necessarily a deal breaker, but after a couple times where my in-tent companionss were more sheltered from the wind and I had my balaclava fully deployed to minimize exposed skin ... it made the pleasure of a lighter baseweight somewhat reduced.

I'll still use my poncho as shelter in the right conditions, but as Phat suggested, try to avoid exposed areas with no trees or other wind shelter. My recent experiences were both cases I wasn't able to pick my own general area to sleep, and maybe that's the real lesson for me. Cases where a poncho is just fine when I'm solo hiking might nevertheless be better to use a light tent when with a group.

I set my tent up in the yard and decided to put it away again. Since sleeping in a hammock I'm spoiled. It was ok to sleep on the ground when I was a boy sprout. Even when car camping I use a hammock. I ain't sleeping on the hard ground unless I'm forced to.

My Warbonnet Blackbird and MacCat Tarp weigh about 3 pounds, 3 ounces.

I COULD go with my SMD Lunar solo and save about 22 ounces. But the extra weight is WELL worth the excellence of sleep I enjoy in my hammock.

If I upgrade to a tent like the Hubba Hubba or REI QuarterDome T3, I save 1-2 pounds worth of weight.

Oh, I agree completely, I just find a few places I end up here I *am* forced to - thanks to a lack of them stickky-uppy hings to tie the hammock to. If It's only a day or so on a multi-day trip I just bivy in the hammock on the ground under the tarp, but if I have to ground dwell repeatedly and exposed I want some serious comfort under me (the BA), and I aint carrying a full kilo of pad *and* my hammock

We do have some big millipedes and centipedes though. A large centipede running down my back in the middle of the night would probably have me using a lighter and an aerosol can of Off! in the undocumented "flame-thrower repellent mode"!

Edit:
I tried a hammock several times last year. Once the novelty wore off, I realized I was more comfortable on the ground because I'm a stomach sleeper. I can even sleep on a 1/2" thick CCF pad with no complaints because my stomach has plenty of natural padding already.

Sorry to thread jack, but I have a hammock question and rather than create a new topic I thought I would just ask here. Actually it is kind of on topic having to do with hammock weight.

I'm considering puchasing a blackbird. I however have a question. Apparently Warbonnet makes a Double Layer 1.1 green 2nd. However the fabric isn't DWR. I'm wondering if the DWR is necessary for the hammock. If it isn't them I'm going to purchase the 2nd because it is $20 cheaper than the dwr grey fabric and is also 1.5 oz lighter. Not much of a weight savings, but as far as pocketbook savings go.

In my experience, dwr is not necessary. I have two hammocks (Claytor and no-name) and neither is dwr.

If underspray is going to be a problem, there are other options such as a hammock sock or an emergency blanket strung underneath.
I think Hennesy makes what they call a supershelter but I've no experience with it.

Jump over to Hammockforums.net and do a search and I bet you can find out. Or email Brandon directly at blackbird and he will reply.


Tango

I've never felt any need to have anything on the bottom. IMO the hammock needs to breathe. Forget dwr, you don't need it.

You don't need waterproof on the hammock unless you're going to hang in a storm. Regular old rain minus the wind will roll off the tarp - hopefully you have adequate tarp coverage...

I take a Driducks poncho, to use as a poncho and weather cover. Putting it over the bugnet adds warmth, putting it over the underquilt adds warmth plus weatherproofing. They sell a modded version at Jacks R Better to use this way plus as a weather cover for the quilt.