Call me foolish but the prices on backpacking/hiking gear seems outrageous in most stores and catalogs. Seems more people would get into hiking if the gear wasn't so high. Local gun store owner say's he would rather make 2o bucks on each gun sold and sell a bunch then try and make a 100 bucks on each and have them laying in the cabinets gathering dust. His place is packed everyday and nothing collects dust on it. Local hiking store has racks of Northface jackets for 300 bucks, packs from 150 to 200 bucks and on and on. Doesn't appear to be selling much and I wonder how long til there is a going out of business sign and a big sale. Not even going to get into where these high priced stuff is made! LOL!
_________________________
Lost? Ain't never been lost! Fearsum confused for 2 or 3 months but never lost.
Registered: 01/22/06
Posts: 89
Loc: IA, soon to be WA!
i imagine it has a lot to do with specialized type of gear we use... alot of design goes into the truly useful items and most of the "companies" that provide the authentic goods are not huge corporations with loads of R&D money. you get what you pay for, and if i have to trust a peice of equipment with my life, i am willing to pay for that. There are much cheaper alternatives to much of the gear... but thats a decision you need to make on your own.
i am a photographer and i charge accordingly... the actual cost to take a pic is ridiculously low (pennies), but what my customers are paying for is my decades of experience, my "tougher and pricier" equipment and for all the work i have done before to produce the photo they want.. lots of intangibles. and most of the really good gear companies are the same way.
now that being said, i make most of my own backpacking gear. it is not that hard and this site has TONS of how-to's and helpful folk to make sure you dont fail. i depend on them daily to keep me from doing something stupid
Actually most backpacking goods are at very low margins. Most hard goods barely make a profit. A typical back pack might have 40-75 individual "pieces" and take a tremendous amount of actual labor to put together. Its one of the reasons that so much mfg has gone "offshore". The old addage you get what you pay for is pretty much spot on with good to excellent gear. You can buy cheaper, and then you can replace it in a couple of seasons. Or you can spend the money and use it for 20 seasons. Trust me, I built backpacks for 7 years as a private label, and if we could make $100 bucks on each pack, I'd be writing this post from Costa Rica
_________________________
I dare you to move, like today never happened... -Switchfoot-
Call me foolish but the prices on backpacking/hiking gear seems outrageous in most stores and catalogs. Seems more people would get into hiking if the gear wasn't so high.
People have been enjoying the outdoors for decades without all of the expensive equipment that we have today, so to say that more people would get into hiking if the prices where not so high is foolish. You don't need to spend $85 on a brand new titanium pot-- a $5 or $10 aluminum grease pot from Walmart or the Dollar Store works fine, nor do you need to drop $150 on a Montbell down vest to stay warm-- Goodwil, Arc etc have lots of fleeces for less than $10 that are more than adequate.
This doesn't just go for hiking/backpacking/camping. The same can be said for any sport, there are always cheaper alternatives. Fly-fishing for example, a pair of Simms waders can cost you $200-$400, but Cabela's has cheaper options that are just fine too.
All people, regardless of financial restraints, can enjoy the outdoors in any capacity that they want, and it won't break the bank.
The high end stuff is for people who either need it or don't care what it costs. I live in Sisters Oregon at 3,200' above sealevel, in the mountains. The stuff I wear every day is almost as useful as stuff costing 4 or more times as much. Shop at B-Mart or some such place for useful gear, also hunting gear is much cheaper unless you choose the specialised stuff.
However I am appalled at the prices for down jackets. I just don't think 300 to 500 dollars for a jacket is reasonable when you can get one for under 100. If you are willing to pay $50 per ounce of pack lightening, then go for it. When money was no object to me I was willing to pay $10 per ounce to lighten my pack and gear. Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.
However I am appalled at the prices for down jackets. I just don't think 300 to 500 dollars for a jacket is reasonable when you can get one for under 100. If you are willing to pay $50 per ounce of pack lightening, then go for it. When money was no object to me I was willing to pay $10 per ounce to lighten my pack and gear. Jim
I agree Jim, I make a very comfortable living and yet I am still unwilling to spend all that money on one jacket, even though I could easily afford to. The only down jacket I own is a $40 (got it during one of their outwear sales) Eddie Bauer Yukon Vest and I am more than satisfied with it.
In fact the only items that I have paid full-retail price for are my +20 and zero degree Feathered Friend bags which I shelled out around $1,000 for-- and I would do it again tomorrow if I had to. I also paid full-retail price for my summer bag, but that is cheap synthetic one that cost me less than $100.
However, even with sleeping bags, the money that I spent is unneeded to enjoy the outdoors. My father-in-law still carries an old 4-5lb REI bag and an 6lb framed Kelty Trekker pack and my wife is quite happy with her $200 Marmot Angel Fire and they are just fine.
Just because something is so expensive, doesn't necessarily mean that you need it to enjoy the hobby.
Call me foolish but the prices on backpacking/hiking gear seems outrageous in most stores and catalogs. Seems more people would get into hiking if the gear wasn't so high.
In some respects I agree - some of the backpacks seem ridiculously overpriced for a sack of nylon with a few straps... but some are engineered for specific environments, and others are custom fitted to you.
And not all gear is expensive unnecessarily. If you want a really compressible and light down bag of adequate warmth to your desired temp range, you will pay a high price, because very high quality down is hard to come by - you can't just pull all the feathers off a goose and stuff 'em in a sack. Down doesn't work like that. It's not feathers. It's under the feathers, and more difficult to gather, clean and package than any slab of Climashield.
Some of us who go out every month look at some kinds of gear as an investment. Being comfortable with the pack to take it often is important, as is having a sleeping bag that will last decades rather than a few years. If you go out twice a year with buddies, yeah, that cheap external frame and cheap sleeping bag work real well.
Aaaand, you don't have to pay full price. There are a ton of websites like steep and cheap and sierra trading post where you can get some of the items you're complaining about for significant discounts - I don't care that something is last year's colors, I'll pay $50 instead of 300 and be just as happy. I only go to an actual store for something I need to fit to my body in very specific ways - like boots. A good fitting boot makes the difference between a death march and a happy fifty miler.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 2124
Loc: Meadow Valley, CA
If cottage industry shops like TarpTent has to charge over $200 for a shelter and Henry doesn't have a big operation, imagine how much $$$ has to be made by bigger companies to satisfy the Board of Directors.
Local hiking store has racks of Northface jackets for 300 bucks, packs from 150 to 200 bucks and on and on. Doesn't appear to be
My pack cost my $99 - not 150 to 200.. as for the jacket, you answered it yourself - Northface - Which every high school kid wears because it is trendy. I find many of the big brand names are pricy not because they are selling backpacking gear, but because they are selling upscale brands to yuppied and yuppie puppies who wear them around town to look cool. Same thing for brands like Patagucci (Patagonia) - which is unfortunate because some of their stuff *is* very good.
Sometimes high end brands are totally worth it, for the quality, sometimes not.
*PRICE* is never a recollection of that however, while the item won't get made if they can't sell it at a profit - take an economics class. PRICE is *WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR*. if yuppies buy it because it it trendy, it'll be priced accordingly. if you drop the price you'll probably even lose that market - because if the jacket cost $100 it wouldn't be as cool to wear to junior high school in Suburbia or while having coffee with the other moms in front of the Cadillac Escalades at the soccer field.
Most of my gear is cottage industry, homemade, or MEC house brand. As such it costs a lot less than many of the alternatives. Good gear *does* cost money to make. I've looked into making my own tarp's frinstance - I can't do it as cheap as I can buy one from MEC or campmor. Ditto backpacks, even simple ones, once I pay *any* amount for my time.
... or while having coffee with the other moms in front of the Cadillac Escalades at the soccer field.
Just pray it never becomes fashionable to pitch at TarpTent Moment in front of your Cadillac Escalade while watching the kid play soccer. While I'm sure Henry would love it, I'm pretty sure the rest of us wouldn't
Good points made by all. I was in a retail backpacking store in a mall yesterday and seeing their prices on boots and such kinda set me off on this subject. Never one for trendy clothes, so I'll keep my Carrhart jacket, work boots and surplus backpack. I'm only doing day hikes for now plus I need to loose some weight. Gettin fat and lazy in my ol' age. LOL!!
_________________________
Lost? Ain't never been lost! Fearsum confused for 2 or 3 months but never lost.
Local gun store owner say's he would rather make 2o bucks on each gun sold and sell a bunch then try and make a 100 bucks on each and have them laying in the cabinets gathering dust. His place is packed everyday and nothing collects dust on it.
Do a cost comparison on hunting and backpacking. For the price of one high end rifle, you can almost completely outfit yourself with high end gear. Make it a custom rifle with a custom scope, and you can buy a full backpacking set-up with a custom pack and sleeping bag with tent and a bunch of other high-end stuff for the same prize. Shoot (no pun intended) my very cheap rifle from Walmart with a cheap scope from Cabelas cost as much as a very high end sleeping bag, $400.
_________________________
I've taken a vow of poverty. To annoy me, send money.
Good points made by all. I was in a retail backpacking store in a mall yesterday and seeing their prices on boots and such kinda set me off on this subject. Never one for trendy clothes, so I'll keep my Carrhart jacket, work boots and surplus backpack. I'm only doing day hikes for now plus I need to loose some weight. Gettin fat and lazy in my ol' age. LOL!!
For boots look at Sports Authority or Dicks, you can pick up some trail runners or some reasonable hiking boots for $40-$70. I don't think you are going to find anything for much less than that unless you look through the thrift stores. Another good place is your local Army Surplus store.
Heck, there's even some fairly decent gear on sale at Marshalls and Costco - I've heard rumors (tho have yet to see) Patagonia or Smartwool at Ross Dress for Less.
It's just like every other consumer product out there - you can save money if you shop carefully and do a little research. And buy gear that's off brand but just as functional.
I could have bought trademarked Goretex fabric to sew together - I bought a waterproof breathable non-branded clone of it instead, for a lot less money. All it took was calling the customer service at OWFINC and asking questions.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
I hope Henry and others like him never go out of business. It's why sometimes, for some items, I'm happy to pay full price for the excellent customer service and the light, high quality and serviceable product the cottage gear industry is capable of - plus some gear makers are happy to add a little customization here and there, like putting a footbox on the other side of a hammock without an upcharge.
Waiting for a winter quilt right now, in fact, that will meet a very specific need in a way that nothing at REI or Sports Authority would ever be able to do.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
Heck, there's even some fairly decent gear on sale at Marshalls and Costco - I've heard rumors (tho have yet to see) Patagonia or Smartwool at Ross Dress for Less.
Never checked in Ross, it is a bit of out the way, but will look the next time I am in the area. I did manage to pick up a Capilene 1 and a Capilene 3 long sleeved crew for less than 15 bucks each shipped from one of the used gear forums. I could never justify paying the full retail price of $40/$45 plus tax for a shirt!
Cottage industries have products that are designed and tested by people that actually use them. Brandon took a quilt to 0 on Friday night and 15 on Saturday night.
If that is a Winter Yeti that you have on order then I am pretty sure it will perform as described.
_________________________
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." Yogi Berra
I think if you put it into perspective, prices are not that high. In 1968 I started buying gear - $50 for boots, $50+ for a Kelty Pack, made my own sleeping bag with a FrostLine kit - still in the $50 range. Now if you were to index this to inflation, what we have available now is much cheaper - because it is all made in China! Clothing has relatively gone down in price since the 1960's. We have become addicted to cheap goods, and lots of them. Used to be that when you bought a jacket, you kept it and patched it until it was threadbare. Now we are used to something new every other year. Toss it out because it is not the newest color. I think we are hypocrits - we want our gear to be dirt cheap, but our own wages and benefits to put us in the upper middle class, so we can go out and buy too much gear. We want to live like kings and have the poor sucker who sews our jacket live in a tin shack.
Prioritize the gear you need. Be willing to pay a premium for lighter weight - may not be important for the young and strong, but for aging backpackers, the light gear is a godsend. Pay a good price for the important stuff. Buy the less important stuff at K-Mart or whatever. I for one will still support my local specialty shop for critical items. If I do not, they will soon be out of business. Yes, when I see a sale, I buy. But I do not expect to put the poor dealer out of business. If the item is on sale, he has probably already made his profits on previous sales. If everyone were to wait for the sale, there would be no sale!
But I think what is important to note, is that if you really want to go backpacking - you can almost gear yourself up from Goodwill or army surplus or second hand shops. Get out and get going - then prioritize what you want in improvements, save pennies and add a new piece of gear every year.
Cottage industries have products that are designed and tested by people that actually use them. Brandon took a quilt to 0 on Friday night and 15 on Saturday night.
If that is a Winter Yeti that you have on order then I am pretty sure it will perform as described.
I got it in the mail today! Verrrrrry nice, four inches of loft, and a vapor barrier to snap in. Need to find an accessible place to camp.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
I just went bargain hunting (again) today. still no nice base layers at my local Ross or Marshalls, but I did get some New Balance shoes for less than half the original retail.
_________________________
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few." Shunryu Suzuki
Heck, there's even some fairly decent gear on sale at Marshalls and Costco - I've heard rumors (tho have yet to see) Patagonia or Smartwool at Ross Dress for Less.
I can confirm the Patagucci at Ross. I scored a Capilene 3 LS crew neck shirt for $20. That's about as much as I'm willing to pay. Patagonia makes some nice stuff but I would never pay full price.
_________________________ If you only travel on sunny days you will never reach your destination.*
* May not apply at certain latitudes in Canada and elsewhere.
Registered: 10/30/03
Posts: 4963
Loc: Marina del Rey,CA
One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is amortization (cost over time). I bought my Patagonia base layers over 20 years ago and still have them. Same for my sleeping bag. Granted the bag hasn't got that many nights on it, but still, it has lasted a long time. The Patagonia layers do have a lot of days on them and are still in great shape.
Cheap gear tends to fall apart far sooner than better gear. However, I have a no name (literally) day pack that has thousands of days on it and it's still in excellent shape, so even that isn't always true.
_________________________
Don't get me started, you know how I get.
But I think what is important to note, is that if you really want to go backpacking - you can almost gear yourself up from Goodwill or army surplus or second hand shops. Get out and get going - then prioritize what you want in improvements, save pennies and add a new piece of gear every year.
Indeed. I'm actually thinking since I'll probably drag yet another newbie down skyline this year again (and I like it even though it'd be my bazillionth time down it) that I'll actually hand the newb my regular kit, and see how cheap I can put together a "white trash hiking kit" from the second hand store, goodwill, diy, and food only from the grocery store and do it that way..
Either that or do it totally retro, with no nylon or plastic allowed - but that's harder
Our long-time Sponsor, BackcountryGear.com - The leading source for ultralite/lightweight outdoor gear:
Affiliate Disclaimer: This forum is an affiliate of BackcountryGear.com, Amazon.com, R.E.I. and others. The product links herein are linked to their sites. If you follow these links to make a purchase, we may get a small commission. This is our only source of support for these forums. Thanks.!