#127318 - 01/25/1003:17 PMRe: down sleeping bag
[Re: skippy]
hikenc9
Unregistered
I'm relocating to Portland, OR in the near future and am in the process of researching sleeping bags. I've been upgrading my equipment to shave as much weight as possible. I would really like to get a down bag because they are so much lighter and compressible. I don’t think I’ll have a problem keeping it dry in my pack if I wrap it in a waterproof bag of some sort. Does anyone disagree with a down in a wetter environment? Any opinions?
Also, if anyone hikes throughout Oregon, what is your sleeping system compiled of? Or any recommendations?
Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3293
Loc: Portland, OR
A down-filled bag works just fine for me here in Oregon. There are many tactics you can apply to keep it dry. You need to have a reliable shelter system that you know how to set up to withstand rain, so the bag won't get wet in your shelter.
When it's raining and it is in your pack, you need to have a waterproof barrier between your bag and the outside world - which can be as simple as a heavy-duty trash-compactor bag used as a pack liner and a silnylon stuff sack for your bag, and placed inside the liner (my current system).
As I just pointed out in a different venue, there is no real difference between the need to keep your down-filled bag dry and your synthetic bag dry, because they both suck at keeping you warm if they are wet.
Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 3293
Loc: Portland, OR
Unless you plan on snow camping, a +20 bag ought to do you fine. Even a +25, if it is honestly rated, and if you have some extra clothes to wear inside it on extra-cold nights.
However, this suggestion comes with the usual warning that different people sleep warmer or colder, they sleep on different pads, and in different shelters, and all of these factors can make a difference. (Especially the pad that insulates underneath you!)
I was surprised to read the EN ratings of some Marmot bags, they rate the bags about 12 degrees lower for men.
I only use down bags. Besides having them in a plastic bag in your pack, perhaps even more important is keeping the inside of your tent dry. Learning to get in and out of a tent without dragging in moisture requires practice. A waterproof shell on a down bag is in my opinion a must. Pressing the warm air out of your bag as soon as you get out of it, then relofting and pressing it out again then stuffing it prevents the water vapor accumulated while sleeping from turning into dampness inside your bag. Preventing condensation inside your tent from touching the bag while you loft it and press it out is critical. Pitching your tent in the sun can create a place to dry your bag. That said, some people will have severe condensation problems in tent next to someone else whose tent is completely dry. Jim
_________________________
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.
Registered: 02/03/06
Posts: 6800
Loc: Gateway to Columbia Gorge
Note that there are multiple ratings in the EN system, even though those in the US who claim they use it list only one. Good website.
Quote:
• The EN 13537 Upper Limit or Maximum Temperature is the highest temperature at which a ‘standard’ adult male is able to have a comfortable night’s sleep without excess sweating. • The EN 13537 Comfort rating is based on a ‘standard’ woman having a comfortable night’s sleep. • The EN 13537 Lower Limit is based on the lowest temperature at which as ‘standard’ adult male is deemed to be able to have a comfortable night’s sleep. • The EN13537 Extreme rating is a survival only rating for a ‘standard’ adult woman. “In the risk range a strong sensation of cold has to be expected and there is a risk of health damage due to hypothermia.” This is an extreme survival rating only and it is not advisable for consumers to rely on this rating for general use. The best guideline temperatures for purchase decisions are the TComfort and TLimit ratings.
It appears that in the US, for the most part, the only one of these ratings used is the "Extreme" rating.
There is still a lot of subjectivity in all this, because each of us has an individual body "thermostat." However, at least with the EN 13537 ratings, there is some objective basis other than the wishful thinking of the manufacturer!
For me, I'd want the "Comfort" rating plus at least 5*F (I'm a really cold sleeper). Most men would want the "Lower Limit" or better Why would anyone would want a bag that would just barely keep you from dying from hypothermia (the "Extreme")? To quote "The King and I", "'Tis a puzzlement!"
Personally, I do fine with a 20* F (-7*C) Western Mountaineering Ultralight--assuming I have adequate insulation underneath on cold nights! I've had it on warm nights in the Cascades (after 90+F* days), and I haven't yet been too warm in the thing. It has a full-length zipper, so on warm nights I can use it as a quilt or even sleep on top. Generally in the West, certainly in the Cascades, nights get cool. I have started the night on top of the sleeping bag and ended up inside and closing most of or all of the zipper by 3 am. This was also true of the three nights I spent in Michigan's Upper Peninsula a few years ago. I suspect that if I were only camping in Ohio or southern Michigan (or points south), though, I'd want a bag that wasn't so warm!
If you are going to be backpacking into the "shoulder season" (September and October) when nights get really cold, 20* (assuming the bag is accurately rated) is the minimum. This past October I spent an 18* and a 20* F night in my WM Ultralight. I was wearing my insulating puffy jacket (Montbell UL Thermawrap), base layer, balaclava and, for a vapor barrier, my non-breathable rain jacket and pants. Unfortunately I did not have enough padding underneath. I therefore was in the odd situation of being too warm on top while my back muscles were shivering like crazy! If I'd had adequate padding underneath, I definitely wouldn't have needed my puffy jacket. With lots of insulation underneath and the puffy jacket, I'd undoubtedly have been fine at 10* F. Extra foot insulation helped, too--I had fleece sleeping socks over a dry pair of Smartwool PhDs, and my feet were resting on my nice warm dog!
I couldn't copy the diagram from the site I linked above, but if you look at it you'll find that the difference between a woman's and a man's being comfortable is 5 degrees C. At last, scientific recognition of what most married couples already know!
Edited by OregonMouse (01/26/1003:12 AM)
_________________________
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view--E. Abbey
I think I plan on waiting a bit to buy one as I want to get a good one. I will be shortly starting a part time job that will pay me 2 bills a night and this will be play money.:)
#129438 - 02/24/1011:57 AMRe: down sleeping bag
[Re: skippy]
hikenc9
Unregistered
Would this sleeping bag do well as a 3-season bag in and around Oregon, Idaho, Washington, and Cal? I have no experience with the climate in those areas.
Would this sleeping bag do well as a 3-season bag in and around Oregon, Idaho, Washington, and Cal? I have no experience with the climate in those areas.
Would this sleeping bag do well as a 3-season bag in and around Oregon, Idaho, Washington, and Cal? I have no experience with the climate in those areas.
WM's Ultralite is quite a popular bag and will be fine for 3-seasons in most of the U.S. You may get a little too warm during the middle of summer (no different than any other 20 degree bag). I also doubt that you will get too many extremely cold nights through-out spring-summer-fall that will take you anywhere near the 20 degree rating, certainly nothing that a light/mid-weight top won't fix.
#130441 - 03/10/1001:27 PMRe: down sleeping bag
[Re: ]
hikenc9
Unregistered
Originally Posted By hikenc9
Would this sleeping bag do well as a 3-season bag in and around Oregon, Idaho, Washington, and Cal? I have no experience with the climate in those areas.
So here's the deal. Right now I'm not super extreme right now.. so I won't be going out in temperatures at 0 degrees. In this case I think I will be doing a lot of backpacking in these areas (including the mountains) starting in March and lasting through November. Maybe those months will be stretched a little; I have no experience with the mountains in the west. My goal is to increase my backpacking time throughout the year as much as possible with 2 bags.
Right now my budget is only two bags with only one of them being WM. I can’t afford two right now even though I would love to. My bag for colder conditions will be a WM for sure (probably 5 - 10 degree?). I have a friend that can get me a real good deal on a Marmot bag so I'll get that for the warmer temps. Not sure what degree rating.
Would this sleeping bag do well as a 3-season bag in and around Oregon, Idaho, Washington, and Cal? I have no experience with the climate in those areas.
So here's the deal. Right now I'm not super extreme right now.. so I won't be going out in temperatures at 0 degrees. In this case I think I will be doing a lot of backpacking in these areas (including the mountains) starting in March and lasting through November. Maybe those months will be stretched a little; I have no experience with the mountains in the west. My goal is to increase my backpacking time throughout the year as much as possible with 2 bags.
Right now my budget is only two bags with only one of them being WM. I can’t afford two right now even though I would love to. My bag for colder conditions will be a WM for sure (probably 5 - 10 degree?). I have a friend that can get me a real good deal on a Marmot bag so I'll get that for the warmer temps. Not sure what degree rating.
Any suggestions on 2 bags that would help me?
Thanks
If you are looking for two bags to cover 3-seasons then I would purchase high quality +10 to +20 degree bag from Monbell, Feathered Friends, WM. This would give you a great range through the shoulder seasons when the temps could be cooler and could even extend your stay into early winter. I would then purchase a cheap (less than $100) summer, +35 to +45 degree bag for when all you really need is something to cover you.
The other way you could go is with a 3-season bag (+15 to +25) and a winter bag-- this system would let you be out all year round. In this instance I would purchase a quality winter bag and a cheap down 3-season bag like a Kelty Lightyear +20. In the colder temps you can just layer your clothing and be comfortable and in the warmer temps you should be fine since a cheap bag is usually rated generously. A winter bag is then used for the really cold conditions, thus making you a two bag system that you can use 12 months of the year.
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