"I don't think you can compare a animal attack in the woods to a attack being done by another human. Simple fact of the matter is, no matter how hard you try, taking a baton to a bear and trying to "win" the confrontation wont happen. So how I see it its best to get to the highest level of force without wasting time that will end up costing you your life in a animal attack"

1) Do you have any statistics about animal attacks on campers. You make it sound like "pack or die at the hands of bigfoot". <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> The fact is - animals are afraid of you to begin with. They are cautious of humans. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

2) Mtn lions that cause problems (according to California fish and wildlife) are generally young males in the 60 to 80 pound range <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> - yearlings who haven't yet learned to avoid humans. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />They are curious, but except in extreme rare instances they avoid contact with humans. When they do, they may growl a threat <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> or otherwise challenge you rather than ambush you. At the point of challenge you must go psycho on it, and it will run.

3) Bears. I have little experience with grizzlies except for camping 3 months in Alaska. I have spent hundreds of nights over way too many years camped in black bear country and I have not yet seen one that wouldn't run away when hit with a rock or when I chase them.

3) As far as the fight back idea - sure you should fight back, but if you are going into the woods"with a round chambered" then maybe you should stay home instead. Your probability of having to defend yourself from a serious attack by dangerous animal is far smaller than being struck with lightning.

4) Human problems - we said camp in the wilderness, not the jungle. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> You would have to be struck by lightning twice to equal the scarsity of trail side killings. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

5) After the recent gun stuff in this forum, I'm beginning to fear some of the gun toting scared members worried about defending themselves, more than I worry about actually being assalted by an animal or a criminal in the woods. I am beginning to fear "honest law abiding people". <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
These are my own opinions based on wisdom earned through many wrong decisions. Your mileage may vary.