Originally Posted By Gershon
One thing about this forum is people can have different opinions and we never seem to get around to fighting.

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To keep in line with what I believe the OP's intent is, I'll present the following scenario. Falling in a fast moving stream.

If I had the opportunity to teach this, say to a group of scouts, I'd have them take a swimming test in a pool or lake and see how fast they could swim. Then I'd take them out to a fast moving stream and toss a stick in to see how fast the water is moving. It's most likely, they will be at the mercy of the water. From this they should learn not to walk across logs over a fast moving stream. Often there is a slow area not far away.

In a fast moving area, I'd try to float with my feet downstream. If it was feasible, I could make a simple life jacket out of my shirt or pants.

The second half I really have no great idea. If I fell in, I'd try to pick an angle to slow water where I could stand up. I might teach rescue techniques such as reaching with a long stick or tying a stick to the end of a rope and throwing it past the swimmer so they can catch the rope. Going into the water for a rescue often a bad idea which results in two fatalities.

Depending on the temperature of the water, I might teach getting the person stripped down after rescue and inside a sleeping bag. Then make some coffee (coffee is always my solution) to help them warm up.

If I really wanted to learn this scenario, I'd go white water rafting where they teach survival techniques before you go out. Most of them actually have you get in the water.

Going back to prevention as I ramble in my mind. It's possible to get in trouble in about 8 inches of water. It's easy to have your legs swept out from under you and hit your head on a rock. The prevention is twofold. First of all water often looks shallower and slower than it appears. Tossing something in the water to see how quickly it is flowing is a good safety measure. Crossing facing upstream and using your poles for balance can make it safer. You can safely feel with the poles before stepping to see if there is a quick drop off in the bottom. If things start to get uncomfortable, go back the way you came.

Feel free to pick my thoughts apart. That's how I learn


OK. I suggest that the last sentence be put first. The first question you have to ask yourself when facing a fast moving stream is: Do I have to cross this? What will happen if I don't?

Because that's the whole key here. You spend too much time talking about the potential scenarios ONCE YOU GET IN THE WATER. And not enough time explaining that it might be smarter to wait until morning, when the snowmelt is slower and the water levels are lower...You don't have to cross the stream.

And losing half a day hiking is WAY better than losing your life.

Look at another scenario:

My wife and I were near the top of the Chilnualna Falls trails in Yosemite in the spring. We were well above snow level, and following in the footsteps of a few other people who had gone before us. It was a long, steep, hard trail.

The top of the trail was under 2-3 feet of snow, and it looked like it led out to a ledge (maybe 20-25 feet) that would then afford a full view of the falls. We couldn't see the falls from where we were, but we could hear them clearly.

But the footsteps stopped short of this ledge. And it was a ledge--a cliff dropped off several hundred feet to our right, and the cliff face was on our left.

We knew the trail had to lead in that direction. But it was under 30 inches of snow. And we couldn't see what was under that snow. If the ledge was flat, there was no problem. We could slog through the snow, and see the falls. We'd hiked five miles or so to see them. But if there was tricky footing under that snow...

And so we turned around. Because we decided that seeing the falls wasn't worth a 1% chance of falling off that ledge. We could come back to see the falls. We couldn't fall back up that cliff.

That's not a clever wilderness skill. We didn't need an axe or Bowie knife(a snow shovel would have been handy!).

In my experience, those are the kinds of situations that get people into trouble. And no amount of knot tying or preparation for cold water swimming can make up for the skill of avoiding the risk to begin with.
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