I agree, Bill.

I have a friend who is a backpacking wimp and backpacking mental midget compared to me. When it comes to climbing rock, he has a friend who is a rock climbing wimp and mental midget, compared to him

As I read thru the thread I sense a lot more agreement than not. That is perhaps the result of different communication skills or styles of each folk.

For me, the focus of physical or pyschological toughness kind of dissipated after military boot camp, oh some 45+ years ago. Not because it isn't important, but because no matter how you define "it", your logic and inferences about such can't seem to be absolute.

wimpy, inexperienced guys die
macho, experienced guys die
girls die, boys die
mental tough guys die
mental midgets die
etc, etc, etc.

Whenever I go into the backcountry, or lead others into the backcountry, we have a simple, fresh start with everyone on the same page. In addition to having the proper equipment, my thought is to start out with an attitude of humility, awareness, alertness, and common sense. Not pushing beyond capacity. For some, like me and you, pushing hard is part of my style. But I have that capacity to push beyond. Others do not and they are wise and mentally in tune when they realize that and respond accordingly. I respect that. But I offer this wisdon to those who push past their comfort zone, and that is accidents happen when you are tired, hungry, not properly hydrated, and/or inadequately equipped. That is just a fact. Don't matter how mental macho you are. Experienced and inexperienced alike need to exercise common sense.

Anyway, I suppose this dialogue can go on and on and most probably nowhere. Sorry if I've done just that